Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
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I think he was trolling.
Your enquiry is quite pertinent Stuttgart. From the CAS report and regarding the legendary gentlemen's agreement, it appears the FAI denied complicity, the IFA couldn't prove it's existence and the CAS concluded that it didn't actually matter anyway!
From what I can see, the solid core beneath the drivel of the 'Open letter to the Irish Football Association' calls for an agreement (gentlemen at the ready) to be established between the two associations which, to quote CAS, "may not be used to defeat the claims" of someone who wishes to switch associations anyway because individual players would "not be party to any such agreement".
That's right folks, the FAI (huge suspension of disbelief required here..) could actually humour this desperation and potentially be challenged by the next Shane Ferguson, angry at being denied his right on the basis of an agreement he never signed up to.
You'd struggle between laughter and crying, you really would.The forthcoming fixture between the two countries is an ideal opportunity for the associations to bring this matter to an amicable conclusion and, in the name of continued cordial relations, to publicly announce that a binding agreement on player selection has been reached. Such an agreement is in the interests of all concerned as it would strengthen and equalise the relationship between the FAI and IFA and end distractive speculation surrounding players.
If the IFA refuses to pursue this course of action, then it will have declared itself unfit to run football in Northern Ireland. In this event, its senior administrators must resign and be replaced by people who will serve the national team's best interests.
You'd be well served to research the agreement reached in 1999.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
With that, your credability sunk dramatically.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
The suggestion that a dual-qualified player should be forced to choose so early at the behest of the IFA is simply outrageous - it would be quite divisive and telling ROI fans to pledge loyalty or féck off would surely threaten the 'all-inclusive' utopian image of the NI team.
If such a rule was applied universally by FIFA to all players, perhaps it would be somewhat more acceptable, but why would FIFA change the rules back?
What exactly are the obligations of accepting a call-up? It's a voluntary thing. The players volunteer their services to an association when accepting a call up and are not bound by anything other than FIFA's statutes.But given the unique situation this is, I don't think it's unfair to call for players to be more aware of the obligations of accepting a call-up. The younger you go, the thornier that issue gets but certainly, with full internationals, it should be fairly obvious if a player wants to play for ROI or NI.
I agree that by adulthood, it should be fairly clear where one sees one's international future, but in reality cases vary for individuals. Players like Duffy and Ferguson, despite being ROI fans and dreaming of playing for Ireland, were offered carrot-caps by Worthington as an incentive to stick around, suggesting that their career with NI was in some way guaranteed - which, if you think about it, is a bit crafty, self-interested and opportunistic (). 16 year olds, influenced by all-sorts, are being presented with the supposed guarantee of an international career with one association as opposed to uncertainty with the other.
The wording is terrible. You get the impression that there is a perennial undertone of intolerance. What kind of compromise do you envisage?The wording, as ever, absolutely dreadful - but the glimmer of the idea seems to be that a compromise should be possible, one that doesn't inhibit choice. Without going all hippy dippy on it (kumbaya) - isn't that something we'd all like to see?
The free choice is currently there for all and that's the way I'd like to see it remain. People born in NI should be free to exercise their identity by being free to play for whichever Irish team they want, provided their services are desired.
End Apartheid Now! One Team in Ireland!
Boyce and O'Byrne agreed that northern-born Irish nationals could play for Ireland, so long as they volunteered rather than the FAI contacting them first.
CAS could find no evidence of such an agreement. Neither could the IFA provide it. The FAI denied it existed and FIFA weren't aware of it. It would be fair to assume one didn't exist. What most people refer to as "the gentleman's agreement" is probably the dictat issued by FIFA in the early 1950s effective only upon the IFA preventing them from continuing with the practice of calling up southern-born players. There was never anything similar decreed by FIFA upon the FAI.
And whenever they so desire.
Pedant alert;Presuming they are eligible.
I've agreed with most things up until this. Total nonsense. And you know it too.
So does that mean that no irishman in the north asked to play for ireland until Gibson did? Also i was not aware that the players such as george, wilson, dufffy, devine, gibson and kearns were contacted by the FAI ? How does anyone know they were contacted first?
Of course they will be referred to as English. What do you think they will be called by the random football fan in say Brazil?Great Britons maybe or united kingdomers?
Im not aware of the agreement that appears to not have existed in the first place so maybe you could provide an official copy other than hearsay that didnt impress CAS either it appears.
Last edited by liamoo11; 20/05/2011 at 10:13 PM.
Heh?
You think you can impose a limit on their own free will??
Hmm, don't think that'd work somehow.
I don't know why I'm wasting my time, but "free will" is a myth for a football player. It doesn't exist.Heh?
You think you can impose a limit on their own free will??
Players are told when to arrive for training, what to eat, what to do, when to go home, when to sleep, what to do at home, when to drink, when to smoke, when to arrive for games, where to play, how to play, when to come off as a sub. Where does "free will" come into that?
In terms of internationals, players already abide by FIFA rules that limit what they can do (for example Ryan Giggs cannot exercise his "free will" tomorrow and decide he fancies playing for England).
"Free will" my jam roll.
The rules are already there to dictate when a player becomes tied to an association, all they are asking is that the rules are modified (i.e. not making any new rules) to lower the criteria for when a player is tied to an association (i.e. less than a full senior competitive cap).
Last edited by awec; 21/05/2011 at 12:52 AM.
You don't really seem to be aware of anything, no harm to you.
Don't understand your last point, they're free to play (or 'switch') at any point during their career, if they're eligible, be they 15 or even 50.
Why would the rules ever be modified just to accommodate the usual paranoid control freakery??
The CAS's decision been done. Get over it and move on.
Plenty of northern-born players declared for us prior to Gibson's switch made the headlines. They just weren't as high profile as Gibson was. I assume the players you mention contacted the FAI first. Why do you assume otherwise? Actually, in the case of Shane Duffy, I understand that Sean McCaffrey and the FAI were reluctant to make any move until Duffy signalled his intentions to them. I suppose nobody can know for sure who contacts who first, although I assume a player could always spill the beans, as it were, if the FAI contacted him and he took some sort of issue with it. I think EG made allegations a while back that the FAI had contacted Chris Baird with an interest in having him declare for us a few years ago but I don't know much else about that and he hasn't posted in a while. I do miss that guy.
Good point Danny - where is he gone?Plenty of northern-born players declared for us prior to Gibson's switch made the headlines. They just weren't as high profile as Gibson was. I assume the players you mention contacted the FAI first. Why do you assume otherwise? Actually, in the case of Shane Duffy, I understand that Sean McCaffrey and the FAI were reluctant to make any move until Duffy signalled his intentions to them. I suppose nobody can know for sure who contacts who first, although I assume a player could always spill the beans, as it were, if the FAI contacted him and he took some sort of issue with it. I think EG made allegations a while back that the FAI had contacted Chris Baird with an interest in having him declare for us a few years ago but I don't know much else about that and he hasn't posted in a while. I do miss that guy.
I'd be delighted if Shane declared for us. He's clearly a lad with great potential. Been reading this thread over the last few weeks and I have to say I have alot of sympathy with Northern Ireland losing so many players to the South. Obviously, I would feel that Northern Irish Catholics or indeed Protestants have a right to play with the Republic and I'm delighted that they want to play for us, but I can empathise with the North losing a large bulk of talented lads, especially if they have used Northern Irish underage sides to get moves to England or put themselves in the shop window. For example lets just imagine a brilliant young player declaring for the North who is born in Dublin after playing with our underage teams. We wouldn't be very happy about it.
Hopefully some day there will be a united Irish football team and then football fans in both countries could regularly watch Ireland in major tournaments. The North will always produce very decent players and occasionally great players like Blanchflower and Best that could make a massive difference to the Republic. I don't buy this notion that it's a class thing that differentiates rugby and soccer and that the "rugby crowd" up North are different to the "football crowd". Boxing is the most working class sport of all and we have a United Ireland boxing team in the Olympics.
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