Shane Ferguson

[SwanVsDalton]

I never suggested the article was any good!

Given how little attention this subject gets in Britain and how poor the level of understanding is, I just thought it was interesting that this is what the average football fan in Britain will read.

Pretty much anyone can write for WSC online. I actually know the guy who wrote it, he's an NI based NI fan.

[ifk101]

I never suggested the article was any good! .

I didn't suggest that you were suggesting otherwise

Given how little attention this subject gets in Britain and how poor the level of understanding is, I just thought it was interesting that this is what the average football fan in Britain will read.

Can the average football fan in Britain read?

[Not Brazil]

I actually know the guy who wrote it, he's an NI based NI fan.

I sense he is still a tad confused by FIFA Eligibility Statutes.

[SwanVsDalton]

I sense he is still a tad confused by FIFA Eligibility Statutes.

Same as but, to give credit, he didn't attempt any real kind of analysis or exploration. Can't say I blame him tbh. Maybe that's just cos I know him though...

[Gather round]

the enduring effect his tenure will have on the national team of Northern Ireland

I'm no fan of Blatter, but there's little point blaming him for the spat between NI and RoI. The latter have simply argued that international eligibility should follow nationality; as they offer that nationality to many beyond their borders (including pretty much everyone in NI), the playing pool is similarly extended.

there is a growing clamour for Northern Ireland to “tactically cap” players in competitive matches before they are approached by the South

It's hardly a clamour. Many others have suggested we pick the best side available; given our small size and modest playing record we simply can't afford to bulk out the squad with kids who aren't ready yet.

Anyway, it's not very imaginative (not to mention childish). International football isn't a press gang- you can't force people to play. There must be a chance that they'll sulk off regardless.

Most players eligible and good enough for NI youth and senior teams will probably continue to be picked for them, for practical reasons. Representative football is helpful in getting professional contracts in Britain; NI's teams are easier to get into; individual players may want to stay with their mates. And (unfortunately) some of the NI support and media are likely to continue making a fuss, particularly if the player has already turned out for our full or U-21 teams, like Barton or Duffy.

But let's not get carried away. Two current English Prem players have moved. Fine, their choice. It doesn't threaten our independence in international football, as some more hysterical NI fans have said.

Many fans, however, in the absence of a genuine left-back would rather see Newcastle’s Shane Ferguson called into the squad to replace the injured Steve Davis

Ferguson has, variously

a) played only a handful of first team games- hardly a preparation for international qualifiers

b) turned out mainly a midfielder or winger

c) been happy to turn out for our youth sides (plus one appearance in a scratch side friendly in Italy). I'm happy to take that as evidence of his commitment.

To see another promising player switch allegiance would be a devastating blow to the association

Er, it wouldn't. It would be someone who wasn't committed walking away. Better then than during a game, like.

this kind of selection may soon become commonplace

I doubt it. If we field a(n even more) rag-tag side in crucial games, we'll tend to lose them. Rather making the whole exercise pointless.

There is an alternative. Ignore the current FIFA statutes- they aren't going to change in our favor while lobbies in Africa and elsewhere argue for even more flexibility. Instead, the IFA could seek a deal with the FAI where neither picks players who've already appeared for the other's teams as adults. Over to you, lads.

Pretty much anyone can write for WSC online

One predictable exception continues to be banned, alas...

[EalingGreen]

Unfortunately I don't have time to return the correspondence from all my many fans on here at the mo (nor am not likely to do for a few days, you can maybe guess why), so I'll just leave you with this:

[SwanVsDalton]

Think NI are trying compensate for something with that humongous scarf.

[Gather round]

Unfortunately I don't have time to return the correspondence from all my many fans on here at the mo (nor am not likely to do for a few days, you can maybe guess why)

Dank U Wel, EG (the big man and I, and NB were hoping to meet up by the Danube for a few slivovitzes this weekend, but our Serbian friends' antics in Genova put paid to that). Never mind, another time.

[DannyInvincible]

I can understand nationalists being irritated by the term, but as long as the South's constitution says "it is the firm will of the Irish nation...to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland", it'll continue to be used. You can't really win of course, because dropping the clause entirely would prompt howls of anguish from northern nationalists.

Let me quote that clause in its entirety:

"It is the firm will of the Irish Nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island."

Sure, dropping the clause would prompt howls of anguish from northern nationalists, but it clearly isn't the remotest bit irredentist for quite a number of reasons that should be obvious to people over a decade after the Good Friday Agreement came into force. I'll outline them and maybe explain the term for those who still wish to erect straw men if needs be. The same applies to Irish citizenship law.

[DannyInvincible]

Northern Ireland suffer following FIFA rule change

What "rule change" is the title referring to?

In England he will forever be the physical embodiment of the corruption which is blamed for England’s failed 2018 World Cup bid; for teams such as Italy and Spain – eliminated from the 2002 World Cup after ludicrous refereeing decisions – he is the staunch opponent of video technology; while for fans of woman’s football his pièce de résistance remains his infamous hotpants remark.

Much less publicised, however, is the enduring effect his tenure will have on the national team of Northern Ireland.

Like Italy and Spain, and to follow his logic, it could be argued Blatter's tenure was detrimental to our hopes of qualifying for the 2010 World Cup, but I suppose it wouldn't suit the narrative if he was to evoke sympathy for the FAI before even getting started on his primary concern.* Besides, Blatter never made any decision regarding the issue anyway, nor did FIFA for that matter; they merely had been applying their rules throughout all of the rigmarole and reiterating that this was the case when the IFA had a rumble. CAS made a decision on the merits of a case brought before them by the IFA - promptly throwing it out the window - but that's about it.

*In fairness, the rest of the article doesn't descend into characterising the FAI as child snatchers.

FIFA rules state player can only play for a country if he or his parents or grandparents were born in that particular nation or if he has lived for two years continuously on the territory of the relevant association.

I genuinely can't fathom how some Northern Ireland fans and Belfast Telegraph journalists with a critical and concerned interest in this issue have failed to take the time to actually look at the statutes in question, or, even better, have a brief skim through the Kearns judgment. Are they unaware of its existence or something? It's a simple Google search away if needs be, good grief.

...with Northern Irish-born players such as Darron Gibson, Marc Wilson and Shane Duffy all now free to turn out for the Republic

Lazy and careless lumping. Duffy would always have been free to turn out for us anyway even had the IFA got their way.

Michael Kane

A monstrous Michael O'Connor-Tony Kane mish-mash combining the talents of both might actually have been useful had he stuck with us...

Not the greatest piece I've ever read now, I will admit.

The wonders of Photoshop.

[Gather round]

Let me quote that clause in its entirety

Go ahead. I quoted the bit that was relevant (to why unionists generally still get irritated, and some though not me call it irredentist).

It's quite simple. For the "Irish Nation" to have a "firm [implicitly, broadly agreed] will" on this issue, either unionists are aren't part of the Irish nation, or the Constitution is inventing support which isn't there.

In the last general elections covering Ireland in 2010 and 2011, 58% of the poll in NI (and thus about 14% of that across Ireland) declined the chance to vote for parties supporting, however nominally, the reunification of Ireland. Those voters don't share that firm will, do they?

it clearly isn't the remotest bit irredentist for quite a number of reasons

I'll repeat. As long as it aspires to get rid of the border it meets the basic criterion to be irredentist, as simply defined above. Regardless of how formal the GFA, how great its popularity, or how obvious the widespread feeling that the Irish Republic's political institutions and most of its electorate haven't the remotest intention of following it up.

maybe explain the term for those who still wish to erect straw men if needs be

I've given a simple, widely accepted definition for the term. It's not a straw man, just an aside to explain why NB's use of it is broadly justified.

The same applies to Irish citizenship law

Not really the same thing. If you want to offer me RoI citizenship, fine. I'm not interested but don't mind you offering. The constitution is a bit more irritating because it

a) keeps going on about unity by consent when there's no realistic chance of that happening in the foreseeable future

b) ignores the likelihood that even a notional 50%+1 nationalist majority in NI is unlikely to be widely accepted as consent to a united Ireland, or perceived as fair/ achievable beyond Ireland

c) is implicitly self-contradicting as above: if FG and FF and their supporters were that bothered you might have expected them to seek electoral support in NI sometime in the last 85 years. But they haven't.

[paul_oshea]

d) It also doesn't take into account all the immigrants who have children who will dillute the ones for a United Ireland.

[Gather round]

d) It also doesn't take into account all the immigrants who have children who will dillute the ones for a United Ireland.

Not a factor for me, Paul. Regardless of how keen or not second-generation Poles or Nigerians in RoI (or NI) are on a united Ireland, there will still be a significant proportion in NI who aren't. Ergo, unlikely united Ireland.

[Predator]

Unfortunately I don't have time to return the correspondence from all my many fans on here at the mo (nor am not likely to do for a few days, you can maybe guess why), so I'll just leave you with this

Was he coerced into that photo?
Have a good time on your journey. I expect you to retract your nonsense about Duffy when you return.

[Stuttgart88]

re-Jonathan Bradley, the WC voting process was certainly deficient, but it recently came to light that England was up to the same tricks as other countries, to some extent anyway.

Despite his stupid remarks about women's attire, Blatter's tenure has seen substantial development of the women's game. The Times is now subscription only so I can't post the link, but Patrick Barclay wrote a good article to this effect a couple of weeks ago.

Regarding governance, the UK's own sports minister has called football the "worst governed sport in the country" and has established a parliamentary commission to investigate its governance. This commission has so far heard testomony that the FA's governance is shambolic and riddled with conflicts of interest, the FA is bullied quite aggressively by the EPL, the EPL has sat idly by while crooks and human rights abusers buy English football clubs, that football clubs are in financial peril and owe the taxpayer hundreds of millions of pounds he is unlikely to ever see, that football's own financial rules subordinate the taxman to football creditors, and so on. The real power in English football, the EPL, is openly hostile to international football. England is hardly whiter than white when it comes to governance so has no moral high ground to take whatsoever. England does have good cause to complain that "spreading the game to new territories" was never sufficiently emphasised at the pre-bid stage.

wrt refereeing errors, video evidence will solve little unless it's applied to goalline related issues. How can you legislate for a video adjudication on a foul? Some are clear-cut, far more are simply a subjective judgment made on the spot. We need better refereeing, not videos.

Just letting off steam...

[geysir]

I've given a simple, widely accepted definition for the term. It's not a straw man, just an aside to explain why NB's use of it is broadly justified.

I'm sure NB can speak for himself but he stated that Irish citizenship laws were irredentist. They are not irrendentist. That claim is ridiculous.

Not really the same thing. If you want to offer me RoI citizenship, fine. I'm not interested but don't mind you offering. The constitution is a bit more irritating because it keeps going on about unity by consent when there's no realistic chance of that happening in the foreseeable future

b) ignores the likelihood that even a notional 50%+1 nationalist majority in NI is unlikely to be widely accepted as consent to a united Ireland, or perceived as fair/ achievable beyond Ireland

If the Irish constitution irritates you the GFA must stick in the throat.
The GFA recognises the inherent identity of nationalists in the North and it was voted for in a general referendum in the North. The GFA itself states unity with the rest of ireland is achievable by consent of a simple majority. The GFA has constitutional status in the North.
Is the GFA irredentist by your interpretation?

[mark12345]

Ealing Green - you're obviously a NI supporter and fair play to you. But didn't it ever cross your mind how good an Irish representative team would be with the best of the North and South combined? I really think we could do some damage. Obviously I'm a ROI supporter but I'm really getting excited about the influx of the likes of Shane Duffy and Shane Ferguson not to mention Darron Gibson. It may be beyond both our controls but we could be looking at something very close to an all-ireland team in the next few years.

[The Fly]

Ealing Green - you're obviously a NI supporter and fair play to you. But didn't it ever cross your mind how good an Irish representative team would be with the best of the North and South combined? I really think we could do some damage. Obviously I'm a ROI supporter but I'm really getting excited about the influx of the likes of Shane Duffy and Shane Ferguson not to mention Darron Gibson. It may be beyond both our controls but we could be looking at something very close to an all-ireland team in the next few years.

[co. down green]

I fixed that pic for you Ealing G

[DannyInvincible]

I love the attention to detail at the left end of the scarf.