I doubt MON even believes that himself. instead MON probably knows that the player wont make himself available in June and is instead protecting Grealish from the inevitable media / fans backlash if he was picked in the squad only to pull out. there is no way the MON doesn't at least see some benefit of having him in the June squad even if he wouldn't plan to start himOriginally Posted by shakermaker1982
Now that Jack seems to be returning to us in September, let's concentrate on getting Crowley, Callum Wilson and Bamford on board. Martin has mentioned leaving a legacy of young players when he departs, these are worth pursuing now.
I think the Ireland Scotland game will be a far more intense occasion than the FA Cup semi final anyway. I'm not saying he's not ready or anything, just that I don't think being able to handle one necessarily means you're ready for the other. In a sense there was little or no pressure on Villa on Sunday. They were massive underdogs and the FA Cup was seen as very much their secondary concern anyway. They're full of confidence under Sherwood and they knew they had freedom to go and express themselves, to borrow an overused cliché. Added to that, they were playing against a team that seemed to have the weight of the world on their shoulders. I couldn't believe how bad Liverpool were, it was like they thought there was a second leg at Anfield to come, such was their lack of desire and urgency.
The Scotland game in Glasgow was a much more tense affair and Dublin should be even worse, given the importance. The McGeady/McCarthy element has added a bit of bitterness and resentment. Most importantly though, this is a must win game for Ireland. It's nothing like Villa's situation. Any mistake could be almost fatal, just ask Robbie Brady! Maybe it would be just what we need to have a cocky kid with a bit of flair and no fear, but I don't think we're comparing like for like when it's been said that he can do it anywhere if he can do it at Wembley. It's not going to happen anyway so we might as well be patient until September when hopefully he'll get and accept a call up for the Gibraltar/Georgia games. England playing San Marino in September, incidentally, so they might see that as an ideal start for him also!
Now it's an issue....
Abolish the crazy rules that allow Jack Grealish to play for the Republic of Ireland
- Birmingham-born Jack Grealish qualifies for Ireland through grandparents
- Grealish was called up by England at 15 but illness prevented him playing
- Ireland, who have a scout to find qualified players, came in for him at 17
- UEFA should have a panel to consider the status of players who are not representing the country of their birth
By Martin Samuel - Sport for the Daily Mail
Not many people had seen Jack Grealish play before Sunday, so even fewer had heard him speak. When he did, he sounded like Ozzy Osbourne. Not as broad maybe but he was, unmistakably, from Birmingham. So is his father, Kevin.
As a boy, Jack would play football in the car park of the New Aston Social Club, where Kevin and other family members drank after Villa games. Kevin was present when the club won the European Cup.
Grealish was called up by England at 15 but was sent home after falling ill. He was later named in an Under 17 squad but by then it was too late. He was already playing for Ireland.
That was partly through his grandparents on his father's side and also because the Irish employ a scout called Mark O'Toole, whose job it is to sweep up the best young players qualified to play for Ireland. That's not the same as sweeping up the best young Irish players.
Ireland were into Grealish early, at 14, and since then he has represented them at Under 17, Under 18 and Under 21 levels. Recently there have been mixed messages. Receiving the award for Ireland's Under 21 player of the year — despite making only two appearances — he said 'hopefully' he would be back in the green jersey next year.
He had taken close to a season out of international football to concentrate on breaking into the Aston Villa team. The England Under 21 manager, Gareth Southgate, was encouraged by this hiatus.
Roy Hodgson's attitude is that players should want to play for England and he may be in no mood for romantic overtures, despite Grealish's obvious talent. Rightly so.
The Football Association's pursuit of Adnan Januzaj was unedifying, misguided and ended in rejection anyway. Better to have allowed the player to decide rather than make a sales pitch.
Grealish has until now preferred to be with the group of teenagers who have accompanied him through his formative years in international football, and if that makes him feel more Irish than English culturally, that is his choice.
This is not about the player, then, but the process. Grealish can be Irish if he wants, the rules say so — but are the rules still relevant? Is it right that O'Toole should be able to act as a club scout in the international game, exploiting outdated regulations around nationality to sign up teenage schoolchildren for Ireland?
The rules were intended to help those without a choice — unable to play for their country of birth, but good enough to represent that of their ancestors. Andy Townsend, born in Maidstone, wasn't regarded highly by those in charge of England but was considered good enough to play for Ireland 70 times, through his Irish grandmother. Good luck to him — England's loss was Ireland's gain.
But Grealish's situation isn't like that. The rules as applied in his case do not combat the absence of choice, they offer more choice, where none is necessary.
Grealish would have long been around the England age group teams by now. He would certainly be in next season's Under 21 team, if he wasn't already heading to the European Under 21 Championship in the summer or to the Toulon Under 20 tournament.
So while Ireland haven't broken any rules, they are certainly making the most of them. Their last Under 21 squad — which did not include Grealish — was made up of 21 players, 11 of whom were not born in Ireland. That cannot be right. It is not fair on those within Ireland's club youth system. It is time for change.
We live in an era of globalisation, of migration, foreign travel and employment abroad. As borders break down or blur, more young athletes will qualify for multiple nations.
Januzaj is the perfect example. His father was from Kosovo meaning he could play for Serbia, his mother Albanian, he has Turkish grandparents, was born in Belgium and has lived in England since the age of 16.
As the planet shrinks more players will have these options.
So is it right that a national association operates as clubs do, recruiting the best young players in what is increasingly a free market. How long before there are secret inducements, promises, before agents are involved?
What if a sharp figure with good connections said he could 'get' Grealish for England, that he had the ear of the player and his family, but would want his expenses covered and maybe a bit extra? Far-fetched? Today's era of the super-agents would also have seemed that way had it been described to those who fought for the abolition of the maximum wage in the 1960s.
For who will benefit, long term, if not the wealthiest associations? Ireland may win over Grealish but imagine the howls if the positions were reversed: if the FA stepped in to entice a young Irish footballer, with a Brummie grandfather, to switch sides?
It only requires an unscrupulous regime seeking victory at all costs. This is what happens if we take the nationalism out of national sport, if we make it too easy to pick up or abandon allegiance. It should be resolved at confederation level.
UEFA should have a panel that sits to consider the status of any player who is not representing the country of his birth. Some cases would go on the tick, taking seconds. Nobody thought Singapore had much claim to Terry Butcher, for instance, just because his father was a signalman in the Royal Navy and he spent the first two years of his life there.
And there would be little objection to a player such as Townsend, who was 25 when he got his first Ireland call-up, at a time when it was obvious he was unwanted by England.
It is different for players like Grealish, who turned his back on England before he was old enough to sit a GCSE. This wasn't opportunity; it was opportunism. Unnecessary and wrong and all too predictably destined to end in this unsightly tug of war.
All I'd say is, if he wants to play for us in September against Georgia and Gibraltar, then wouldn't he relish Scotland at home in June? It would be after the end of the season, the season in which he has come a qualified way in achieving what the sabbatical was intended to contribute to i.e. establishing himself in the Villa side.
I just hope that MON makes the approach. We could do with the extra spark and excitement that having Grealish in the squad would bring.
That Daily Mail article is funny. It ignores any Irish identity that Grealish has inherited from his 3 grandparents e.g. his keen interest in Gaelic Football. Instead, it makes it seem as though Grealish was snapped up against his own will and our coercion means he can't play for England now, even though he's English as the Queen.
So personal choice should be removed and the FAI are the baddies. God bless Martin!Now it's an issue
Abolish the crazy rules that allow Jack Grealish to play for the Republic of Ireland
- Birmingham-born Jack Grealish qualifies for Ireland through grandparents
- Grealish was called up by England at 15 but illness prevented him playing
- Ireland, who have a scout to find qualified players, came in for him at 17
- UEFA should have a panel to consider the status of players who are not representing the country of their birth
By Martin Samuel - Sport for the Daily Mail
Not many people had seen Jack Grealish play before Sunday, so even fewer had heard him speak. When he did, he sounded like Ozzy Osbourne. Not as broad maybe but he was, unmistakably, from Birmingham. So is his father, Kevin.
As a boy, Jack would play football in the car park of the New Aston Social Club, where Kevin and other family members drank after Villa games. Kevin was present when the club won the European Cup.
Grealish was called up by England at 15 but was sent home after falling ill. He was later named in an Under 17 squad but by then it was too late. He was already playing for Ireland.
That was partly through his grandparents on his father's side and also because the Irish employ a scout called Mark O'Toole, whose job it is to sweep up the best young players qualified to play for Ireland. That's not the same as sweeping up the best young Irish players.
Ireland were into Grealish early, at 14, and since then he has represented them at Under 17, Under 18 and Under 21 levels. Recently there have been mixed messages. Receiving the award for Ireland's Under 21 player of the year — despite making only two appearances — he said 'hopefully' he would be back in the green jersey next year.
He had taken close to a season out of international football to concentrate on breaking into the Aston Villa team. The England Under 21 manager, Gareth Southgate, was encouraged by this hiatus.
Roy Hodgson's attitude is that players should want to play for England and he may be in no mood for romantic overtures, despite Grealish's obvious talent. Rightly so.
The Football Association's pursuit of Adnan Januzaj was unedifying, misguided and ended in rejection anyway. Better to have allowed the player to decide rather than make a sales pitch.
Grealish has until now preferred to be with the group of teenagers who have accompanied him through his formative years in international football, and if that makes him feel more Irish than English culturally, that is his choice.
This is not about the player, then, but the process. Grealish can be Irish if he wants, the rules say so — but are the rules still relevant? Is it right that O'Toole should be able to act as a club scout in the international game, exploiting outdated regulations around nationality to sign up teenage schoolchildren for Ireland?
The rules were intended to help those without a choice — unable to play for their country of birth, but good enough to represent that of their ancestors. Andy Townsend, born in Maidstone, wasn't regarded highly by those in charge of England but was considered good enough to play for Ireland 70 times, through his Irish grandmother. Good luck to him — England's loss was Ireland's gain.
But Grealish's situation isn't like that. The rules as applied in his case do not combat the absence of choice, they offer more choice, where none is necessary.
Grealish would have long been around the England age group teams by now. He would certainly be in next season's Under 21 team, if he wasn't already heading to the European Under 21 Championship in the summer or to the Toulon Under 20 tournament.
So while Ireland haven't broken any rules, they are certainly making the most of them. Their last Under 21 squad — which did not include Grealish — was made up of 21 players, 11 of whom were not born in Ireland. That cannot be right. It is not fair on those within Ireland's club youth system. It is time for change.
We live in an era of globalisation, of migration, foreign travel and employment abroad. As borders break down or blur, more young athletes will qualify for multiple nations.
Januzaj is the perfect example. His father was from Kosovo meaning he could play for Serbia, his mother Albanian, he has Turkish grandparents, was born in Belgium and has lived in England since the age of 16.
As the planet shrinks more players will have these options.
So is it right that a national association operates as clubs do, recruiting the best young players in what is increasingly a free market. How long before there are secret inducements, promises, before agents are involved?
What if a sharp figure with good connections said he could 'get' Grealish for England, that he had the ear of the player and his family, but would want his expenses covered and maybe a bit extra? Far-fetched? Today's era of the super-agents would also have seemed that way had it been described to those who fought for the abolition of the maximum wage in the 1960s.
For who will benefit, long term, if not the wealthiest associations? Ireland may win over Grealish but imagine the howls if the positions were reversed: if the FA stepped in to entice a young Irish footballer, with a Brummie grandfather, to switch sides?
It only requires an unscrupulous regime seeking victory at all costs. This is what happens if we take the nationalism out of national sport, if we make it too easy to pick up or abandon allegiance. It should be resolved at confederation level.
UEFA should have a panel that sits to consider the status of any player who is not representing the country of his birth. Some cases would go on the tick, taking seconds. Nobody thought Singapore had much claim to Terry Butcher, for instance, just because his father was a signalman in the Royal Navy and he spent the first two years of his life there.
And there would be little objection to a player such as Townsend, who was 25 when he got his first Ireland call-up, at a time when it was obvious he was unwanted by England.
It is different for players like Grealish, who turned his back on England before he was old enough to sit a GCSE. This wasn't opportunity; it was opportunism. Unnecessary and wrong and all too predictably destined to end in this unsightly tug of war.
the English are gas. they plunder other countries rugby players and cricket players all the time. their rugby team takes advantage of a rule in rugby which strongly favours the bigger nations with their professional leagues over those countries who don't (so do we btw and its wrong)
I think he's suggesting we do the honourable thing and wait until Grealish is 25 before we make another approach. If England haven't used him by then we can have him. Can't get any fairer than that.
His dad says he'll play for our U21s in September but leaves issue of senior team choice up in the air.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/inter...-21s-says-dad/
Firstly I thought the Jacky played well in Sunday.
Now let's get onto the international issue, are we all missing something here?
Wrap it up anyway you want but if your hearts with Ireland and you've always wanted to play for Ireland, then there should be no question about who you will opt to play for.
We are talking about a lad with some potential, there have been other games recently where he's looked average, but that's what you get with young players.
I hope he does well, but just don't care for the way he's going about the international issue.
Not even if you're a dual national with split loyalties? Do you seriously expect a lad who was born in Birmingham to two England-born parents to feel 100 per cent Irish/committed to Ireland?
I thought you'd understand all about dual eligiblity after you were urging (via fear mongering) the FAI to select St. Ledger a few years ago before he potentially opted for NI and was lost for good.I hope he does well, but just don't care for the way he's going about the international issue.
Reading between the lines, I believe Jack's heart is with Ireland. But the dilemma he is facing is possibly an agent telling him he could be the next Rooney and make millions more if he played for a high profile country like England and be able to play in more World Cups. The dilemma he faces is one of head over heart if anything.
Last edited by gastric; 22/04/2015 at 10:56 AM.
Dunphy's comments are reliably ill-informed: http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-31161016.html
Martin has been very respectful of Grealish. Both Martin and Roy have met with Jack and his father personally and are respecting the lad's wishes to remain unavailable for selection. They can't force him into the senior squad if he's not available.
Dunphy talking out of his arse, of course, but I agree with him regarding Keane's comment regarding Grealish Snr. I have to say I found that a bit dumb at the time myself, even if he was right.
If it was meant in seriousness, it would have been a silly comment, but can we assume that it was? Roy has a sense of humour too. Grealish doesn't seem to have any issues with Roy and Roy has always been complimentary otherwise.
Half joking, half serious I would have thought but, ultimately, unnecessary and unhelpful. Maybe I'm wronging Keane, he obviously knows the situation and understands his relationship with the Grealish's better than I do, but it seemed a risky tactic. Maybe it was just good bants between chums
Last edited by DeLorean; 22/04/2015 at 10:04 PM.
Grealish, Crowley and Bamford....three wonderfully talented young players who could be terrific for us.
It's great that our ex-pat community is churning out the talent, but that is nothing new. I heard Phil Thompson talking a while back about the subject (maybe on Newstalk) and how the FAI can pretty much assume that any talented young scouse kid could play for us so it's worth the chase - not sure if Thommo was looking for a job as an FAI scout on the side!! To a far lesser extent, the same could be said in Birmingham, London and Manchester.
I'm delighted if those three declare for us. However, my major gripe with all of this is that we continue to depend on others to build our talent, in the same way that if a homegrown kid becomes top class, like say Jack Byrne or Conor Masterson might, it does a great job in papering the cracks for the FAI.
Bearing in mind that it appears more realistic that Grealish and, to a lesser extent, Crowley could play senior for us, I'm not quite sure when we had such a dearth of exciting, cultured midfield players with such potential to have expectations/hopes for- Alex O'Hanlon, Jack Byrne, Jack Grealish and Daniel Crowley. Mouth-watering when you consider one of them starred in an FA Cup semi-final on Sunday and the rest are considered huge prospects at their top 4 clubs.
Don Givens will find a way to ruin them all.
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