Jack Grealish

[SwanVsDalton]

I dunno. People and the media will always speculate; it's human nature to let our emotional/irrational side run wild sometimes. The media did the same with McCarthy and demands were made of McCarthy on this forum to explain himself and put the rumours of a potential switch to Scotland to bed, in spite of the fact he had done nothing wrong and the media were simply whipping up the paranoia. I can see why players mightn't be too keen on coming out to deny or confirm every item of speculation in the media; it'd be never-ending. Why would they bother engaging with a beast that has little respect for them? It's not Grealish who owes the media an explanation; it's the media who owe him a bit of time and respect. The same applies to us fans. He's told us he hopes to be back in September. Leave him be 'til then.

I think a lot of this files into the 'that's footy, that's life' category. Grealish is talented footballer, he better get used to scrutiny and media coverage. No one is really asking for an explanation, their just understandably speculating over which way one of the PL's hottest prospects are going to go.

I think it's different from McCarthy, because McCarthy consistently affirmed what he wanted to do whereas Grealish hasn't and his commitment hasn't been tested at all. He 'went with the flow' at underage, but as soon as the question has legitimately cropped up, he withdrew himself and has stayed isolated since. You can't do that an not expect, at the least, questions and scrutiny.

Ultimately, Grealish isn't being particularly victimised beyond the usual vile corners of the internet. On the abuse scale, this falls way short of James McClean's poppygate or even the long-running McCarthy saga. And no matter what agreement was made in September, it doesn't really take into account Grealish becoming the PL's hottest property of the season. Grealish's family should appreciate that.

The Sherwood development is interesting and suggests that maybe he and family do appreciate that things have moved on. It does raise the prospect that he will play for us (I wasn't optimistic).

If true, I agree with you Danny - it's more likely it's about keeping his mind on the cup game and out of any English media storm rather than actively trying to push him to declare for Ingerland.

[Deckydee]

https://danieldcollins.wordpress.com...ering-options/

[paul_oshea]

"In that case was he was always going to decide on his international future at the end of this season."

I thought that was september, why now the end of the season? Either way I don't expect to see him in an Ireland shirt next month.

I would like to see though if England called him up, I do feel the lad is confused at present time, but obviously all the years playing for Ireland isnt enough to convince him, nor is the whole family being pretty much Irish - I'd take from that that actually a lot of it for him is nostalgia, but deep down he wants to play for England, hence why he is holding off - whether that's for career aspirations or his sense of Englishness who knows.

The Brits and media have been very quiet on it all. Perhaps they know something more. September might just be a buffer to let the old lover down easy

[Charlie Darwin]

Either way I don't expect to see him in an Ireland shirt next month.

Psychic Paul on the case again

[Stuttgart88]

How successful are your hunches?

Terrible

[DeLorean]

The not so renowned Stutts Hunch Test.

[DannyInvincible]

And in your last piece, you miss the point of international football and playing for your country if "he said he will play in september leave him be till then", its a patriotic duty, an honour, not a job or a chore.

Are you directing that at me? Just because I can accept that a dual national might have a genuinely split sense of allegiance doesn't mean I miss the point of international football. Why do you think I follow Ireland? Grealish has two national identities and would be representing either of those whichever way he goes. I know what playing for Ireland would mean to me - it would amount to an intensely proud expression of my identity - but that's the ideal and I can appreciate not everyone in world football will feel that way either. It's also easy for me to think the way I do about the idea of playing for Ireland as I don't identify with any other national identity. I'm just being realistic too in acknowledging that other factors besides pure national pride might be significant or influential in drawing Grealish towards one side over the other in a situation of genuine uncertainty. Whichever decision Jack makes, I'm really not quite sure the term "mercenary" would fit. I don't think he could ever be classified in the same file as Mark Noble or Jermaine Pennant considering his past service and obvious pride in his heritage.

They say they agreed with Noel King all along that the plan was to take a year out, but several things have happened since, that are common knowledge and don't need any elaboration (I will if I have to), to contradict this.

Sorry, genuinely not trying to pester you, but what things are you referring to exactly that contradict the fact he is taking a break or the claim he had planned to take a break?

Things have come full circle with the Roy Keane comments, I see. When he made those comments, I detected the sound of frustration with the Grealish's behavior. People responded that Keane's tone when he said it was jocular. Now, it is being used as a stick to beat MON & Keane with. Which is it?

Have they? Who has come full circle exactly? You're attributing two independent, separately-expressed and likely-mutually exclusive views to some imagined single body of people and accusing them of collective inconsistency as a result in order to make some sort of point of one-upmanship about how it supposedly proves you were right and they (whoever they are) must now be wrong. Who are you asking and why are you conflating these opinions? Erecting a strawman, me thinks.

O'Neill said Roy's comment was jocular the other day. It's been used as a stick by Eamonn Dunphy, those who have a bone to pick with the management team and those who don't think that the comment was said with a hint of dry humour. Most people's opinion is more nuanced than you would be happy to admit. I suspect most think that Roy probably said what he said as a bit of banter considering he knew Grealish and had already met his father, but that it might have been preferable if he'd avoided making such a potentially-contentious remark because you just never know how it might be taken. Ultimately though, most sensible people, like O'Neill, probably consider it not all that significant in the grand scheme of things and the direction this ongoing saga will take.

What is happening is not Keane, O'Neill or Sherwood's fault. He is a grown man and needs to make a firm decision one way or other because this entire situation is getting ridiculous.

Nobody with power and influence over this situation is seeing fit to push him into making a decision. The three individuals you mention have been doing the exact opposite, in fact. They've been either letting him take his time or telling him to take his time. If Martin and Roy are frustrated, all they have to do is issue an ultimatum. You're letting the media hype carry you away. Nothing has changed significantly since last week when the September-return agreement was still in place, just like it is now.

He doesn't owe us anything? Maybe he owes a debt of gratitude for taking the place of players who actually wanted to play for their country when he was capped at underage level.

Give over and don't be so precious. Players come and go all the time. Some things work out; others don't. Do you expect apologies from all those young prospects who've "gone off the rails" and failed to live up to their early promise for having deprived from getting a chance other young players who might, on the other hand, have had the "right" mentality and maturity in latter years? Associations can lose interest in a player at any moment - they're very much disposable to associations - and the same can be true in reverse, unfortunately. That's life. Just because an association has selected a player before doesn't mean they have to keep selecting him forever after, so surely the same must apply vice versa. Players are free to clear off or retire if and whenever they want. If they no longer want anything to do with us, just forget about them, like Stephen Ireland. Who cares about him? He did a bit for us and we got something back from his service, but that's that; what more do we want? An apology from him?... C'mon, get on with it and re-focus on those from whom we can get something of actual value. He's not bound to our wishes for life because accepted a few call-ups.

If we think a player doesn't want to play for us or if we think his attitude is suspect, we can always just forget about him. On Grealish specifically, he's shown up since aged 14 when selected (excepting the present break). That's something tangible he has returned. He didn't have to bother. And the FAI select players. If a player is good enough, he'll be on the association's radar. He'll have plenty of opportunities. If that player is missing out because there's another player in the team occupying his position, that's a good incentive to try push on and improve. Grealish didn't select himself every time he ended up in a green jersey. The FAI have wanted him, knowing his dual-eligible status, over other available players when they've selected him.

I think a lot of this files into the 'that's footy, that's life' category. Grealish is talented footballer, he better get used to scrutiny and media coverage. No one is really asking for an explanation, their just understandably speculating over which way one of the PL's hottest prospects are going to go.

I think it's different from McCarthy, because McCarthy consistently affirmed what he wanted to do whereas Grealish hasn't and his commitment hasn't been tested at all. He 'went with the flow' at underage, but as soon as the question has legitimately cropped up, he withdrew himself and has stayed isolated since. You can't do that an not expect, at the least, questions and scrutiny.

I was responding to an express call for him to come out and explain himself, but fair points. Only thing I would say is maybe give him the space and time he's sought; the questions and scrutiny will be more than justified for me come September if he declines a senior call-up then. But I do see why it might be exasperating for some. We're all interested Ireland fans concerned we might lose a great prospect. I'd just urge people not to lose the heads.

https://danieldcollins.wordpress.com...ering-options/

Load of sh*te!

"In that case was he was always going to decide on his international future at the end of this season."

I thought that was september, why now the end of the season? Either way I don't expect to see him in an Ireland shirt next month.

I've seen some speculate on YBIG that he might simply be waiting (under Sherwood's advice/instruction) until after the season/FA Cup final to make a declaration of commitment and that he'll join up with the squad then. Dunno how likely that is. A nice thought but maybe more delusional than anything!

[gastric]

The not so renowned Stutts Hunch Test.

I would appreciate if all who are interested in Stutts' famous gut feelings read this article. New scientific evidence may support his feelings!

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/diet...08-ggxbuw.html

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

"Not trying to pester you". I've given up on that possibility by now.

The contradictions I am referring to include saying that a one year break was agreed with Noel King in early Autumn even though King had attempted to call him up for the U-21's and MON attempted to call him up several times after the fact. The fact that MON referred to Grealish being "hard to get a hold of". The fact that his father was posting contradictory things on social media. If a year long break was agreed with King in August or September, then maybe Grealish/s should have had the courtesy to get in touch with the senior team managers and let them know what's going on?

There is the "straw man argument" cliche rearing its ugly head again. I didn't bandy that jibe around when posters like you were being belligerent about me predicting this saga months before it happened. You were misrepresenting my points then, but I took - and continue to take - the high road.

I'm not getting carried away about anything. I am not the one who takes accusatory and demeaning stances when someone disagrees with his argument. I don't understand what you say here? I haven't criticised the way anyone is handling this apart from the Grealish's. "Nothing has changed". Glad you are so definitive about that. According to different sources, the player and/or father performed a "last minute u-turn" or has no intention of accepting a call up. This "one year" break has only became common knowledge after a couple of platitudes the player made when accepting an award at a ceremony. If he comes back to play for the U-21's, it merely prolongs the saga; it isn't an affirmation of anything.

I think it's morally wrong that a player would take advantage of the rules to play International football at underage level and take a squad place from someone that bleeds green. It's within the rules, but I find it extremely cynical. He has said in the past that he was playing for Ireland because they were offering a higher level of competitiveness than he would get within a lower age group with England. Other things he said raised my eyebrows but this is old news. As I said, cynical.

I hope he makes a decision one way or other by the start of next season and I hope he plays for Ireland, but I sincerely believe the climax of our group games will be overshadowed by headlines of Grealish being too focused on e.g. nailing down his Aston Villa place to play for Ireland.

[DannyInvincible]

Another post I saw on YBIG and thought interesting:

...

I admit I have this time also based alot on hearsay as posted by The Boy Z. His post implied Jack had accepted a call-up but turned it down last minute, and that MON spoke to Tim Sherwood. As you havent been following the thread, The Boy Z was at the press conference as he works in the building it took place in, and he claims a security man he knows told him he overheard an irate O'Neill on the phone to Sherwood asking "who put him in that room? What changed his mind?" This conversation allegedly took place as MON was running late for his press conference. It hinted at a dramatic u-turn.

I had no reason to believe that Z was lying so I accepted his anecdote as fact and reinforced my view that Jack was favouring an Ireland call-up, and that he'll announce it when Villa's season is over. Even tho that conversation was never mentioned by MON or Sherwood and not mentioned in any paper except hinted at by Ian Mallon in Yesterday's Irish Independent.
Altho now it looks like Sherwood acknowledges a conversation did take place, for me verifying Z's anecdote.

Sherwood said the following today:

“It’s only Jack and his family who can make [the decision],” he said.

“If he wants guidance from me, unfortunately I can’t give it him. Jack has to know who he wants to represent.

I think it's pretty clear then the U-turn wasn't because Sherwood was trying to pressure Grealish out of playing for Ireland and into playing for England, unless the man is completely shameless. It looks to me like he's telling the media there's no decision yet in order to quell the attention for a bit until the season's over, despite the fact Jack was obviously ready to accept the call at one point. If he didn't urge Jack to pull out because he wanted him to re-consider Ireland and play for England, then it has to be that he simply seeks to protect a player who would otherwise still be in our squad now if it weren't for Villa's present position and an upcoming FA Cup final. Is it fair to infer that from what we now know?

[gastric]

"Not trying to pester you". I've given up on that possibility by now.

The contradictions I am referring to include saying that a one year break was agreed with Noel King in early Autumn even though King had attempted to call him up for the U-21's and MON attempted to call him up several times after the fact. The fact that MON referred to Grealish being "hard to get a hold of". The fact that his father was posting contradictory things on social media. If a year long break was agreed with King in August or September, then maybe Grealish/s should have had the courtesy to get in touch with the senior team managers and let them know what's going on?

There is the "straw man argument" cliche rearing its ugly head again. I didn't bandy that jibe around when posters like you were being belligerent about me predicting this saga months before it happened. You were misrepresenting my points then, but I took - and continue to take - the high road.

I'm not getting carried away about anything. I am not the one who takes accusatory and demeaning stances when someone disagrees with his argument. I don't understand what you say here? I haven't criticised the way anyone is handling this apart from the Grealish's. "Nothing has changed". Glad you are so definitive about that. According to different sources, the player and/or father performed a "last minute u-turn" or has no intention of accepting a call up. This "one year" break has only became common knowledge after a couple of platitudes the player made when accepting an award at a ceremony. If he comes back to play for the U-21's, it merely prolongs the saga; it isn't an affirmation of anything.

I think it's morally wrong that a player would take advantage of the rules to play International football at underage level and take a squad place from someone that bleeds green. It's within the rules, but I find it extremely cynical. He has said in the past that he was playing for Ireland because they were offering a higher level of competitiveness than he would get within a lower age group with England. Other things he said raised my eyebrows but this is old news. As I said, cynical.

I hope he makes a decision one way or other by the start of next season and I hope he plays for Ireland, but I sincerely believe the climax of our group games will be overshadowed by headlines of Grealish being too focused on e.g. nailing down his Aston Villa place to play for Ireland.

Ouch! Some very nice bitch slapping here directly aimed at you Danny.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

gas.....

I'd waited long enough. I f***ing quoted him hard. The post was there (I think). Take that you. And don't ever stand over me again sneering about strawman arguments. And tell your pal DeLorean there's some for him as well.

But seriously, yeah, I want Grealish to play for Ireland and he has proven he has a bit more about him than I, maybe, gave him credit for earlier this season. But, maybe, that's the problem when you cut straight to the thick of it.

This entire mess is indicative of his burgeoning talent.

[SkStu]

Another post I saw on YBIG and thought interesting:



Sherwood said the following today:



I think it's pretty clear then the U-turn wasn't because Sherwood was trying to pressure Grealish out of playing for Ireland and into playing for England, unless the man is completely shameless. It looks to me like he's telling the media there's no decision yet in order to quell the attention for a bit until the season's over, despite the fact Jack was obviously ready to accept the call at one point. If he didn't urge Jack to pull out because he wanted him to re-consider Ireland and play for England, then it has to be that he simply seeks to protect a player who would otherwise still be in our squad now if it weren't for Villa's present position and an upcoming FA Cup final. Is it fair to infer that from what we now know?

The only thing that doesn't add up for me is Jacks tweet the night before. Something along the lines of people knowing things about him that even he doesn't.

[DannyInvincible]

The only thing that doesn't add up for me is Jacks tweet the night before. Something along the lines of people knowing things about him that even he doesn't.

Ah, you referring to this?:

Jack Grealish has just tweeted "WOW. Just read stff in the papers about myself that I didnt even kno bout. Smile smiley face. Sunglasses smiley face. Cheesy grin smiley face. Head in palm smiley face. Beach ball smiley face. Batman smiley face. Tongue out smiley face. Monocle smiley face. Harvey two face smiley face. LULZ. Exclamation mark. Exclamation mark. Exclamation mark".

TOWK was cracking a joke based on Jack's tweet of surprise the night before the USA squad announcement when (if memory serves me right) there were reports he was going to be in the squad. No such tweet as that "quoted" by TOWK above (or similar) exists. Grealish has been pretty quiet on Twitter and hasn't tweeted anything in the last few days about Ireland or this situation.

[DannyInvincible]

This was the actual tweet last October: http://foot.ie/threads/148358-Jack-G...=1#post1784864

[DannyInvincible]

"Not trying to pester you". I've given up on that possibility by now.

C'mon, we've been getting along swimmingly, have we not?

The contradictions I am referring to include saying that a one year break was agreed with Noel King in early Autumn even though King had attempted to call him up for the U-21's and MON attempted to call him up several times after the fact. The fact that MON referred to Grealish being "hard to get a hold of". The fact that his father was posting contradictory things on social media. If a year long break was agreed with King in August or September, then maybe Grealish/s should have had the courtesy to get in touch with the senior team managers and let them know what's going on?

Of what significance is the time-frame specified exactly? He's said to give him 'til September and said that he had spoken to Noel King about a break. If that wasn't true, King could simply have disputed it. I find it hard to believe the senior management team might have been left out of the loop. Sure here's an article from last August, after Grealish met with O'Neill, in which John Fallon states, "It is understood Grealish has asked for space to consider his international future and so won’t be included in the Irish squad announced by O’Neill today": http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-30525041.html

What's your point exactly anyway? Are you saying this all betrays a lack of respect from Grealish? He's met with the management and everyone seems to get along just fine and cordially; they all have had one another's numbers for quite some time and there don't appear to be any issues at present. O'Neill was very clear he didn't feel rebuffed; there is no tension. You're concocting drama. Why are you getting wound up on behalf of people who aren't even getting wound up themselves?

There is the "straw man argument" cliche rearing its ugly head again. I didn't bandy that jibe around when posters like you were being belligerent about me predicting this saga months before it happened. You were misrepresenting my points then, but I took - and continue to take - the high road.

Why would an accusation of raising a strawman have been appropriate previously exactly? I've never denied the possibility of him switching to England, and especially not belligerently. I've always maintained the situation is ambiguous at worst and have urged caution before jumping to rash conclusions. I've been basing my opinion on the evidence available and on Jack's own words. I have long been taking issue with your moral judgments (like your referring to his conduct as "disgraceful") and your insistence/presumptions that he has just been stringing us along and is intent on switching to England as soon as the situation presents itself. You've not been foretelling the future. You've simply been assuming the worst because that's what you do; you always assume the worst in people. You pretty much are the Irish Daily Mail.

I don't understand what you say here? I haven't criticised the way anyone is handling this apart from the Grealish's.

My point is that you're demanding a decision of Grealish that not even Martin or Roy - men in the know who've been entrusted with managing our team - are demanding. Maybe you should criticise them if you want a decision from him. Ask questions of them if you have a problem with how the situation is being managed from our side.

"Nothing has changed". Glad you are so definitive about that. According to different sources, the player and/or father performed a "last minute u-turn" or has no intention of accepting a call up. This "one year" break has only became common knowledge after a couple of platitudes the player made when accepting an award at a ceremony. If he comes back to play for the U-21's, it merely prolongs the saga; it isn't an affirmation of anything.

No, he had stated very clearly that he hoped to be back playing for us in September.

And I wouldn't be supportive of him returning to our under-21s in September. I've been clear about that and agree with you there. If he refuses a senior call-up in September, it's ultimatum time or forget about him.

I think it's morally wrong that a player would take advantage of the rules to play International football at underage level and take a squad place from someone that bleeds green. It's within the rules, but I find it extremely cynical.

You're morally condemning a 14-year-old and accusing him of cynical exploitation for having accepted international recognition without fully understanding at the time that his dual-national status might pose a rather difficult dilemma for him five years down the line? Seriously?...

He has said in the past that he was playing for Ireland because they were offering a higher level of competitiveness than he would get within a lower age group with England. Other things he said raised my eyebrows but this is old news. As I said, cynical.

You know well that's not the only reason he's bothered turning up for us. I don't know why you persist with giving the impression he is a mercenary with no sentiment for Ireland.

Not that what you say is accurate either in the sense that there was never an indication that he'd have accepted an England call-up even if it were for an equal or higher level to what he was playing at with Ireland. We had numerous discussions about that before.

[SkStu]

Ah, you referring to this?:



TOWK was cracking a joke based on Jack's tweet of surprise the night before the USA squad announcement when (if memory serves me right) there were reports he was going to be in the squad. No such tweet as that "quoted" by TOWK above (or similar) exists. Grealish has been pretty quiet on Twitter and hasn't tweeted anything in the last few days about Ireland or this situation.

Ooooooh, I knew thaaaaaaat.........

(scarlet!)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Feck, who's Jack Grealish?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I'm the Irish Daily Mail?

If you cannot debate without throwing insults like that, then maybe you should give me a wide berth, and save everyone the trouble of glorified slanging matches?

If I was the Daily Mail, then I would be drawing daft conclusions and I would be reactionary.

As it stands, I took a position that Grealish wasn't fully committed to Ireland months before he pulled out of a squad in Autumn and, lo and behold, he wasn't fully committed. That may change. I also maintain the position that the Grealish's are not being fully transparent throughout this affair, due to comments they have made, comments MONKeano have made and things that have transpired over the last several months. I also posit that the onus is on Grealish and to place any culpability on his club manager and/or national team managers is illicit.

I haven't being belligerent about Grealish at all, so I wish you would stop being so defensive about my stance. The majority of Irish football fans share my stance. I have been pragmatic, realistic and courteous throughout the entire mess.

[Charlie Darwin]

Have to say that's the first time I've ever seen somebody take offence at being called a newspaper.