Really? Which performances from the 14 games he played in Spring 2014 (13 in League One, 1 Premier League appearance) would you class as mediocre, bearing in mind that his performances in five of them led to a player of the month nomination in April?Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
LOL gastric, first of all you have a grudge against me and this has colored every single one of our exchanges. At least Charwin and Tets are able to debate something in a more coherent way than you just put forth.
My knowledge of football and nationality is not limited. Grealish is not ready for International football and/or Premier League football. The only reason that he was called up to the squad for the Oman and Georgia games was to curry favor with him; it has always been the case. Prospectively bringing someone on as a substitute, in stoppage time against Georgia, in order to tie him is cynical.
My reading is that Grealish wants to play for Ireland in the short-term and wants to play for England in the long-term. He hasn't switched to England at underage level because if he played competitively it would tie him. It's only apropos. The lad supports our U-21 team and supports England.
He would not be great for us! He could be great for us. Michael Reddy, Keith O'Neill, Sean Thornton, Owen Garvan, Anthony Stokes and Conor Henderson could have been great for us too. I have yet to see a single national English source hyping up Grealish; only regional sources. I'm very skeptical that England are desperate for his services. And for reasons already explained - for whatever their worth - I doubt he's under that much external pressure to switch countries and if he is, I've only heard it from him, his father or his brother.
Michael Owen? You're comparing him to Michael Owen. Wow.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...ted-about.html
There was a lot of talk of external pressure being put on Michael Keane and Sean McGinty. Keane did switch to England. His profile and appearance count at senior club level was far less than Grealish's at that point.
Last edited by Olé Olé; 25/08/2014 at 12:12 PM.
Just to throw some high octane on this inferno, Aiden McGeady had only played underage football for Ireland, had spoken with the Berti Vogts (the Scotland manager at the time) but still went on to play for Ireland at international level, and was 18 when he made his debut for the senior team.
Is this the same Steve Staunton who'd broken into the Liverpool first team at the start of the season and who had become a regular starter for the best team in the league before he made his Ireland debut about 2 months later?
Is this the same Michael Owen who was Liverpool's first choice striker and top scorer before he made his England debut?
Is this the same Jim Beglin. Sorry my mistake, you were right about him. One out of three isn't bad.
Some other notables you forgot to mention who made their Ireland debuts before establishing themselves at their respective clubs include the following household names:
Alan O'Brien, the prolific Joseph Lapira, Cillian Sheridan, Graham Barrett, Joe O'Cearuill, Darren Potter and Alan Maybury. All went on to be superstars we can all agree.
Had Staunton played for Liverpool before his Euro 88 call up? My recollection is that it was a major surprise, and there was very little fanfare for his inclusion. I'm guessing his first cap came the following season.
http://www.suttoncoldfieldobserver.c...ail/story.html
Villa boss Paul Lambert commented on the potentially difficult situation after the game with Newcastle at the weekend, saying: "Jack will do what's right. There's no pressure from me whatsoever."
Michael Keanes another Clark over hyped but in reality, brutal!
Clarks 5th choice at his club now that says it all, another Foot ie great green hope found out as not up to it.
When will people take the green tinted glasses off and see these type of players for what they are?
5th choice is better than no choice!
When Clark arrived on the club scene he did pretty well. He actually played defensive midfield for a while and scored a lovely volley at home to Arsenal. It wasn't unrealistic to be excited about his potential back then.
I think that's an old confusion you have, Staunton's first Finals were at WC1990.
Somehow Staunton and 1988 has stayed stuck in your memory.
Nevertheless (by default) your point stands, Staunton had just played one league game for Liverpool before making his intl debut in Oct 1988
His situation was similar to Grealish.
He became a regular for Liverpool later that season, so Young Irish's tendency to put his foot into his mouth has reoccured.
Was he on standby or something for Euro88? I'm almost certain the first time I really heard of him was before that tournament.
Maybe it was something like that, he was considered for the final squad and just missed out.
However, he watched the Finals in Ireland.
Therefore that happened before he started for Liverpool in a league game.
Ah geysir the fountain of all ignorance. Surely if you're going to pull me up on something you'd think you could have checked your information as I'm sure we've been here many times before with you spouting facts that were subsequently and fairly rapidly proven to be nonsense. Who said anything about league games anyway?
Staunton had made 5 appearances early in the season for Liverpool before getting a cap for Ireland. 3 of them (not 1) were in the league, I see numbers are also not your strong point. Get this, he scored a goal in one of those appearances.
Also he was making a serious claim for a starting position in the dominant English club of the 70s and 80s, equivalent today to an 18 year old starting and scoring for the likes of Manchester City or Chelsea. I personally see this as more impressive than playing 23 minutes for a team most pundits think will struggle near the wrong end of the table but each to their own. Reality can be a bitter pill to swallow.
But hey don't let facts get in the way when making your point. Why break the habit of a lifetime now?
My main point still stands for every Staunton (5 senior appearances and 1 goal) that we cap there are 10 Alan O'Briens that fade into obscurity.
Jack Grealish is just the current flavour of the month on foot.ie the same as Stokes has been, Owen Garvan, Lee Trundle (seriously), Darren O'Dea, Liam Miller, Terry Dixon etc, etc, etc. All hyped up unreasonably with little or no justification and not one amounted to anything more than a decent Championship player.
Last edited by youngirish; 25/08/2014 at 8:58 PM.
You still haven't grown out of your loud, uncouth sarcastic ways Young Irish.
You claimed Staunton was a regular starter in the Liverpool team before he was capped by ireland.
Staunton was considered for the Euro 88 squad as Stutts has stated, he was left out with Mark Kelly and Charlton gave them a rented car to do a holiday as compensation of sorts. That happened before he made a league debut for Liverpool.
His first start for Liverpool in a league game was Oct 1st he had also played a league cup game and a charity game for Liverpool before he was capped.
He was capped for Ireland 19th Oct 1988 and he was far from being a regular starter with Liverpool which happened late November when a regular defender got injured.
That's a good piece. Well worth a read.
He has stated before that we're in his long-term plans, or, at least, we were at some point before the summer. He's not said his long-term plans are to play with England, nor has he suggested that he'll jump ship if England do come forth with a better offer than with what they've been tempting him already, so you're just cynically speculating when you assert that "he wants to play for England in the long-term". Chances are he'd turn England down due the attachment and bond he has built with Irish team-mates and figures working for the FAI. He has never said he supports England to our exclusion either. The one thing we can be certain of right now is that he's a young (and possibly muddled) dual national who does not want to be rushed into making an irreversible and life-changing decision.
I think it's worth quoting some of McDonnell's piece here:
Out of interest, does it pain you when you feel compelled to support England-born Irish players proudly wearing the green with distinction who might otherwise have ended up wearing the white of England had they had the chance?
I think McDonnell also makes a good point as to why these sorts of cases cause us such great collective anxiety. If our own system of player development was a strong and reliable one, we wouldn't have to be worrying so much about losing talented Irish nationals with dual nationality to the association representing their birthplace nationality. As McDonnell wrote: "Irish fans might feel that history is repeating considering the anxiety that preceded James McCarthy's senior breakthrough. This is what happens when your own system is inadequate."
Before he made his international debut on 19th October 88 he had started the previous 3 out of 5 games for Liverpool. That's regular enough for me. I never said guaranteed.
Should we be pained, DI? Presuming they made a free choice, despite dual (or more) qualification...
Or did you mean something slightly different?
DI
I'm sure you'll just compulsively disagree with everything I say yet again but here goes....
Ireland have never been in his long-term plans. He doesn't know what his long-term plans are. I suspect that they are determined on a number of factors, some beyond his control. He implied that he was looking forward to a prospective call up during the summer several months ago and then turned it down when it came. No, he indeed hasn't suggested that he will jump ship to England but what conclusions are we supposed to draw from him turning down a call up to the Ireland senior team when to my knowledge he hasn't even been offered a call up to the England U-21 team? I believe he said he supported the senior England national team and the Ireland U-21 team (or something to that effect). I'm open to correction on that. Yes. He doesn't want to get capped by Ireland in a competitive game because it will prevent him from playing for England and he doesn't want to play competitively for England at underage level for similar reasons. He's not a child. He is a grown man and he has had plenty of time to ascertain what national team he wants to play for. It's not a life or death decision at the end of the day. Worst case scenario he plays for Ireland more than he ever will for England (if he actually merits it) and doesn't get to play in as many tournaments, or he becomes a bit part player for England. I think that's where the existential crisis comes from; marketing reasons too perhaps. Maybe he won't get a Brylcreem sponsorship deal if he declares for us.
I know I'm going to get mocked for this but it's a first world problem isn't it? There are 12 year old children fighting wars these days yet I am supposed to feel some kind of empathy for a 19 year old footballer, who already earns more in a month than I do in a year, over what country he plays for, because he is a young man?
It doesn't pain me. I get over it and try not to think about it too much as it goes beyond my control. I support the team whoever plays. What pains me is someone playing all through the age groups for one country, turning down a call up for the senior team and taking a place in the U-21 team of someone who may want to play for his country whenever he gets the call.
Personally, I don't have any anxiety over losing Granny rule players. The best eligible players play for England and the players who do end up declaring are not world beaters.
That's just my opinion anyways. Cynical as it may be. What some find cynical, others may find hopeful.
What will be will be.
Last edited by TheOneWhoKnocks; 25/08/2014 at 10:52 PM.
Any of you going to UCF vs Penn ST at Croke? That will take your minds off this.
No Somos muchos pero estamos locos.
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