Jack Grealish

**DannyInvincible** · 22/08/2014, 1:04 AM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I still think he's ours to lose and his sitting on the fence is neither anything really new nor anything particularly controversial. His position isn't unlike the Janujaz situation. Remember the hysteria over James McCarthy. I still think there's a whiff about that saga in this situation.

TOWK, to his credit, has been very restrained in his reaction. Paul seems to think he has already won some kind of fortune telling cum amateur psychology competition.

Hehe, just because there's doubt - as a result of an absence of evidence - it doesn't make it fair to automatically assume the worst outcome will be the case, or any outcome will be the case, for that matter. If the worst outcome then transpires to indeed become the case, one can't then say, "I told you so!" if their pessimistic cynicism or desire to go against the reasoned grain would have seen them take that position regardless, despite nobody having had any way of actually knowing the final outcome for certain at the time they made their assertion. Rational belief can only be based on the evidence available rather than jumping to conclusions or filling the gaps in knowledge with suspicion and speculation. Having "called it right" is more chance coincidence - with a fairly big chance at 50-50 - than profound insight under such circumstances. Agnosticism, for want of a better word, on any particular issue is not the same thing as naivety or ignorance.

I agree though; in TOWK's defence, whilst ambiguity remains and the situation is still much the same in substance, he's not been trying to lord this setback over anyone and that's to his credit.

Did anyone who stated conclusively that McCarthy would play for Scotland ever apologise for it, or say they were wrong? Do you think anyone who is wrong here will do the same if Grealish plays for Ireland?

Paul will still be telling us he told us so!

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Stutts is correct. Once he accepted a call-up to England U21, he'd have used his one change of allegiance and he'd no longer be eligible for Ireland.

Hmm, I'm not quite sure that is the case. If Grealish is to go on and play competitively for England's under-21s he will definitely have effected his solitary switch. The rule does state that a solitary "request" is permitted, but the evidence appears to inform us that a player must play in a competitive game for his new association in order to actually effect a switch, even if he has completed the requisite switch paperwork. There were cases in the eligibility thread to back this up, if I recall correctly. Bobby Zamora played for England at under-21 level before he requested a switch to Trinidad & Tobago. He was all ready to play for them having had the switch approved by FIFA, but missed out due to injury, before then going on to represent England at senior level. Tony Kane and Michael O'Connor similarly went from IFA to FAI and back again without getting tied competitively. I don't see how this would have been possible if a simple request was enough to tie a player to a new association. I've had a quick skim over the old eligibility discussion, but did we ever arrive at a certain conclusion on this? geysir?...

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

ok, I thought the rule applied per age group, i.e. once you've played competitively for one U21 side, you can only play for that one U21 team, and not per age group per tournament, e.g. play for Sweden U21s in their qualifiers for the 2013 UEFA European Under-21 Championship and then France (say) for the 2015 UEFA European Under-21 Championship

If that is true, then the next available date for Grealish for England U21 will be their first qualifiers for the 2017 UEFA European Under-21 Championship in 12 months, correct?

Unless, of course, he gets called into the England senior squad

The regulation only prevents a player from participating in the same competition for another association's like age-group. Shane Duffy played for the IFA at both under-19 and under-21 levels before later playing for Ireland at under-19 and under-21 levels, for example. Here's the wording of the rule, which mentions nothing of a limitation based upon representing a particular age-group:

Originally Posted by FIFA

8: Change of Association

1. If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if a Player is eligible to play for several representative teams due to nationality, he may, only once, request to change the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches to the Association of another country of which he holds nationality, subject to the following conditions:

...

b) He is not permitted to play for his new Association in any competition in which he has already played for his previous Association.

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

It doesn't look to good from Ireland's point of view.

"If I'm enjoying it with Ireland and I won't be pressured into playing for England.... For the next couple of years, I want to play for Ireland."

Not the initial *if* which is combined with and *and*. so two conditions have to be met, the second condition is rather cryptic
"and I won't be pressurised into playing for England" I am rather unclear what that means. If you drop the initial 'if' it make sense. ie
"I'm enjoying it with Ireland and I won't be pressured into playing for England."
Makes sense, but even then it is followed by "For the next couple of years, I want to play for Ireland."
that seems to apply that outside of the new two years he does not want to play for Ireland.

What you quote above is an abbreviated version of a quote, condensed by myself, that originally appeared here: http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-30075664.html

I imagine it's an answer in response to a question along the lines of: "Will you continue with the way things are at the minute and stick with Ireland?"

I don't think the quote necessarily stacks the odds against us. Looking at it literally and logically, it doesn't necessarily mean that he'll definitely switch if he's still enjoying it with us and there's pressure upon him to play for England. Or does it?... So, in that sense, two conditions might need to be met if he's to switch; interest from the FA and a loss of enjoyment from playing for us. We just don't know for sure. Is someone gonna draw up a matrix or what?!

**tricky_colour** · 22/08/2014, 3:14 AM

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

What you quote above is an abbreviated version of a quote, condensed by myself, that originally appeared here: http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-30075664.html

I imagine it's an answer in response to a question along the lines of: "Will you continue with the way things are at the minute and stick with Ireland?"

I don't think the quote necessarily stacks the odds against us. Looking at it literally and logically, it doesn't necessarily mean that he'll definitely switch if he's still enjoying it with us and there's pressure upon him to play for England. Or does it?... So, in that sense, two conditions might need to be met if he's to switch; interest from the FA and a loss of enjoyment from playing for us. We just don't know for sure. Is someone gonna draw up a matrix or what?!

There are few too many 'if's' and buts for me, I am kind of expecting the worst to be honest, seems to me he is keepinghis
options open, I can't blame him for that.

The thing I see that probably works in our favour is that competition for a place in the England team is likely to be pretty
high although as I said the left wing spot is a bit of an exception so there are a number of things to be considered, I mean
he might play one or two games for either England or Ireland and turn out to be a bit of a flop and they not get selected again.

Hence I think he has probably made the right decision for himself by delaying committing himself.

**tricky_colour** · 22/08/2014, 3:16 AM

Originally Posted by geysir

I had always thought, that despite all, you were a respectable chap Tricky.

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I'm disgusted.

I meant to put a

but had made the post before I got the chance to put it in

( the post not the 5 inches).

**DannyInvincible** · 22/08/2014, 8:10 AM

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

There are few too many 'if's' and buts for me, I am kind of expecting the worst to be honest, seems to me he is keepinghis
options open, I can't blame him for that.

The thing I see that probably works in our favour is that competition for a place in the England team is likely to be pretty
high although as I said the left wing spot is a bit of an exception so there are a number of things to be considered, I mean
he might play one or two games for either England or Ireland and turn out to be a bit of a flop and they not get selected again.

Hence I think he has probably made the right decision for himself by delaying committing himself.

There are lots of "ifs" and "buts" when it comes to the question of him switching too. I think the odds favour us, to be honest. Why would he ever lose enjoyment or feel put off by donning the green? Noel King and Martin O'Neill have dealt very well with him and there's a clear mutual respect there. Also, any switch would be dependent on serious FA interest. They'd have to cap him competitively to tie him. If he was to decide to switch, I'd imagine he'd like to be sure he wasn't going to become a one-cap-wonder and throw a potential international career with Ireland down the drain. If the status quo remains, he'll play with us. He may come to the conclusion that deciding to switch might be too radical and risky an option for him to take. But we will see.

**ArdeeBhoy** · 22/08/2014, 11:14 AM

Tbh, If our whole international future hangs on what JG decides, we're screwed...

**tetsujin1979** · 22/08/2014, 11:23 AM

included in the U21 squad vs Germany: http://www.fai.ie/international/unde...h-germany.html

**ArdeeBhoy** · 22/08/2014, 11:28 AM

Hurrah!

**Olé Olé** · 22/08/2014, 12:09 PM

Is that an intentionally young squad or are some of the players I'm thinking of over-age? There's a long list (Reilly, O'Brien, O'Sullivan, Egan, McDermott, McCarey, McAlinden, Smith, Murray, O'Connor, Burke, Drennan, McHugh, Carruthers, Forrester, Hayhurst, B. Lenihan, Sutherland, Williams, Feely).

And that patsy Grealish is in there ahead of 'em all!!!!!!!!!!

**Charlie Darwin** · 22/08/2014, 12:44 PM

The remaining group games are meaningless as we can't qualify so you might as well take the opportunity to start using the players who'll be eligible for the next campaign. King says as much in the blurb.

**TheOneWhoKnocks** · 22/08/2014, 4:25 PM

Some strange selections in that U21 squad alright. Jack Connors of Dag and Red is in there but Alan Browne isn't, despite cementing his place in a strong League One side.

**Charlie Darwin** · 22/08/2014, 5:00 PM

Browne's omission is strange as the U19s have no games until November as far as I know. Perhaps he thinks Byrne, Grealish, Lenihan and Sadlier he's got enough midfielders.

**BonnieShels** · 22/08/2014, 9:19 PM

Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Also, where in O'Neill's quotes does it state Jack refused a call-up? O'Neill doesn't state that he called Jack up, just that there was a conversation. A "decent conversation."

With young players it can be understandable that they, or those around them, don't want the added pressure of senior international football when the motives behind it may be to get them capped. Draw a parallel with Ryan McLaughlin who asked not to be considered. He's back playing with them.

I'd place a bit of trust in one of Ireland's greatest players and one of the finest diplomats to ever straddle the line between two football associations (as opposed to countries) to get this one as right as anyone.

I'd call it cynical to infer cynicism on Jack's part. For now.

Probably the best post on the whole matterf or me. Bang on.

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

What the whole 5 inches?

I sniggered and am disgusted. I'm still shocked it's taken this long for someone to take in the full innuendo.

**TheOneWhoKnocks** · 22/08/2014, 10:06 PM

One person may find one viewpoint cynical, another person may find a different viewpoint optimistic and ideal. The bottom line is that he does not want to be considered for the senior team at this moment in time; which correlates with his own regular, pointed usage of "short-term" and "long-term" when discussing the national team. We can all discern whatever we want from that. A call-up to the U-21 team does not really change anything.

People say the lad is confused. He clearly is. Several months ago: "I would love to play for the senior team and with all the games they have lined up for the summer it could happen, but for now I am just enjoying every game and every cap with the U21s."

He was born in England and with his level of talent there is always going to be a pull towards England that doesn't exist with similar aged players of lesser talent whose path in International football is more linear.

I think it's a tad harsh to imply cynicism or hysteria on my part. I think I'm just being a bit realistic. I want the lad playing for Ireland as much as anyone else; I'm always harping on about a lack of Irish players at the top level.

The bone of contention seems to be what is behind Jack's decision making process. Is he waiting to see if he is good enough to garner serious interest from England (in which case this saga could become seriously protracted; and he could be of more use to us than England in the short-to-medium-term), some existential crisis in his heart about whether he feels more English or Irish, pressure from his club (for whatever it's worth I already explained why I doubt this), may have more earning power playing for England..... who knows? We can only offer conjecture.

There has to be a balance though. You have to give the lad the benefit of the doubt but at the same time maintain a degree of realism. We (O'Neill, Keane, King) can do no more than what we are already doing to make the lad feel comfortable and special while (Keane) maintaining a distance so as not to be overbearing.

**ArdeeBhoy** · 22/08/2014, 10:46 PM

Why doesn't someone write and ask Grealish? Then we might have a clue what he's thinking...

If he wants to play for us he will, if he doesn't he'll get a lot less, if any, full caps.