Jack Grealish

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

So is Kevin Doyle... but yeah I dont think hes ready for a full cap yet

Kevin Doyle has over 50 caps for Ireland, approximately 50 Premier League goals scored, was arguably our best player at Euro 2012 (not saying much) and is probably (along with Long) the only reason we realistically stayed in contention for the WC 2014 after turning a loss away to Kazakhstan into a win.

Think he deserves a bit more credit that that, in fairness.

Grealish is 18 years old and has just over a dozen appearances for a team in the relegation zone of League One. If he comes good, great; but we are going to need to be a bit more patient.

[samhaydenjr]

Kevin Doyle has over 50 caps for Ireland, approximately 50 Premier League goals scored, was arguably our best player at Euro 2012 (not saying much) and is probably (along with Long) the only reason we realistically stayed in contention for the WC 2014 after turning a loss away to Kazakhstan into a win.

Think he deserves a bit more credit that that, in fairness.

Grealish is 18 years old and has just over a dozen appearances for a team in the relegation zone of League One. If he comes good, great; but we are going to need to be a bit more patient.

I understand your view about being patient with Grealish and the rest of his season at Notts County becomes unspectacular or if he gets called back to Villa to spend the next year or so in the youth teams, certainly there would be no point in rushing him into the squad. However, I feel there is a scenario that could also unfold where instead of being patient, the new management team should be ready to bring him in quickly (and admittedly it is a quite specific scenario that may not pan out at all). If Grealish continues to excel at Notts County for the rest of the season, it may be a good idea for Martin O'Neill to use his old Aston Villa contacts to find out whether Paul Lambert plans to put him into the first team next season. If so, then a run-out in a friendly (either against Serbia in March or in a Summer friendly, should the FAI organise a couple) might be a prudent. Because if Grealish were to take the Premier League by storm next season in the manner that Ross Barkley has done this season, then it would be great to have him already blooded into the international squad by the time Matchdays 2 & 3 of Euro 2016 roll around in October 2014 (or failing that, Matchday 4 in November), even if it just means being able to use him as an impact sub in the last half hour. Again, I acknowledge that the next twelve months may not unfold anything like this and also that Grealish is still young, but consider this...when Euro 2016 qualification kicks off, he will have just turned 19, which is older than Robbie Keane and Anthony Stokes were on their international debuts, and less than 18 months younger than Robbie Brady, Darron Gibson, James McCarthy and John O'Shea were.

[CraftyToePoke]

Notches again today. The pendulum swings further to the fast track option This can be argued well either way and there is a lot in what both of you are saying, but can't help hoping for the specific scenario from above. His loan ends in January anyway I think, so maybe we will see him at a higher level sooner. A good showing in a Championship loan move or a big squad gathering at some point, a 28/32 training camp even, would surely see him involved.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Every friendly counts before the Euro 2016 Qualifiers. First priority should be giving Andy Reid and Wes Hoolahan playing time and integrating them further into the set up ahead of September. Hendrick and Meyler also deserve a chance and Gibson should be available by pre-season. Then we have McCarthy, Whelan, McGeady, Brady and Quinn all playing at a high level.

I just don't see a situation where we could justify putting an untested League One player on the pitch when we should be preparing pragmatically for Euro 2016 Qualifiers, for a competition we have every chance of qualifying for.

I definitely think there should be a couple of B Internationals where players like Grealish, Carruthers and Murray can be assessed though.

If Grealish moves to a Championship team or (highly, highly unlikely) gets into the first-team at Aston Villa by the end of the season my opinion may change but until then I'm just reminded of the unwarranted excitement over Terry Dixon and Conor Henderson.

[tetsujin1979]

Every friendly counts before the Euro 2016 Qualifiers. First priority should be giving Andy Reid and Wes Hoolahan playing time and integrating them further into the set up ahead of September. Hendrick and Meyler also deserve a chance and Gibson should be available by pre-season. Then we have McCarthy, Whelan, McGeady, Brady and Quinn all playing at a high level.

I just don't see a situation where we could justify putting an untested League One player on the pitch when we should be preparing pragmatically for Euro 2016 Qualifiers, for a competition we have every chance of qualifying for.

I definitely think there should be a couple of B Internationals where players like Grealish, Carruthers and Murray can be assessed though.

If Grealish moves to a Championship team or (highly, highly unlikely) gets into the first-team at Aston Villa by the end of the season my opinion may change but until then I'm just reminded of the unwarranted excitement over Terry Dixon and Conor Henderson.

Hoolahan and Reid will be 34 and almost 34 respectively, when Euro 2016 kicks off. It's more likely that two of Gibson, McCarthy, Hendrick and McCann will be the starting central midfield partnership at that time, and I genuinely wouldn't think it was a positive sign of the squad progression if we were still relying in two players in the latter stages of their careers.
Grealish will be a few months short of turning 21. Similarly it's more likely that two of Brady, McGeady, Pilkington and McClean will be the starting wingers. Nobody is saying he should be captain, or even a guaranteed starter, but the signs are promising that he will be an excellent player in years to come, and hopefully a part of the squad at that time.

Dixon was cause for massive excitement, but everyone was well aware of his injury history, even at that young age. Henderson was a renowned passer of the ball in midfield in the underage setup, has scored some special goals, and was the first Irish player since the mid-late '90s to complete a full game for Arsenal. Unfortunately, he suffered a serious injury at the worst possible time and his career has stagnated since. He might get a run out this weekend for Hull against Middlesbrough.

[tetsujin1979]

according to this - http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/spor...alishs-6458408 - his loan deal with Notts County expires on the 13th January, and there's been no contact yet about extending it. Also, three unnamed League One clubs are monitoring the situation

[Charlie Darwin]

Hoolahan and Reid will be 34 and almost 34 respectively, when Euro 2016 kicks off. It's more likely that two of Gibson, McCarthy, Hendrick and McCann will be the starting central midfield partnership at that time, and I genuinely wouldn't think it was a positive sign of the squad progression if we were still relying in two players in the latter stages of their careers.

The Latvia and Poland matches suggest O'Neill is planning to play with a CAM in the Hoolahan or Reid mould in front of two midfielders. Unless we can unearth somebody younger who can fulfill the same function - and it looks like Grealish might eventually be that man - I think we can work with those two for a couple of years.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Hoolahan and Reid will be 34 and almost 34 respectively, when Euro 2016 kicks off. It's more likely that two of Gibson, McCarthy, Hendrick and McCann will be the starting central midfield partnership at that time, and I genuinely wouldn't think it was a positive sign of the squad progression if we were still relying in two players in the latter stages of their careers.
Grealish will be a few months short of turning 21. Similarly it's more likely that two of Brady, McGeady, Pilkington and McClean will be the starting wingers. Nobody is saying he should be captain, or even a guaranteed starter, but the signs are promising that he will be an excellent player in years to come, and hopefully a part of the squad at that time.

Dixon was cause for massive excitement, but everyone was well aware of his injury history, even at that young age. Henderson was a renowned passer of the ball in midfield in the underage setup, has scored some special goals, and was the first Irish player since the mid-late '90s to complete a full game for Arsenal. Unfortunately, he suffered a serious injury at the worst possible time and his career has stagnated since. He might get a run out this weekend for Hull against Middlesbrough.

I think, on form, Hoolahan and Reid deserve to play a significant part in our next qualifying campaign, while they are still only 32 which is hardly old. As far as Euro 2016 goes, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. Hoolahan, Reid and all parties will invariably benefit from working under a manager who is more tactically flexible and competent to make changes during games. I don't believe we will see such ham fisted attempts at substitutions that we seen in the last campaign under Trapattoni, particularly in the crucial games against Austria and Sweden.

I would be much more confident bringing on Hoolahan or Reid than bringing on Cox or Keogh.

As CD said, we need a mix of players. Trapattoni's stubbornness (putting it lightly) deprived us of options for too long. As long as Hoolahan and Reid are fit and able and performing at a very high level, they should be at the forefront of our thinking.

Anders Svensson was four years older than Hoolahan and Reid when he put us to the sword and the latter two aren't renowned for being lightning quick anyway.

[samhaydenjr]

Every friendly counts before the Euro 2016 Qualifiers. First priority should be giving Andy Reid and Wes Hoolahan playing time and integrating them further into the set up ahead of September. Hendrick and Meyler also deserve a chance and Gibson should be available by pre-season. Then we have McCarthy, Whelan, McGeady, Brady and Quinn all playing at a high level.

I just don't see a situation where we could justify putting an untested League One player on the pitch when we should be preparing pragmatically for Euro 2016 Qualifiers, for a competition we have every chance of qualifying for.

I definitely think there should be a couple of B Internationals where players like Grealish, Carruthers and Murray can be assessed though.

If Grealish moves to a Championship team or (highly, highly unlikely) gets into the first-team at Aston Villa by the end of the season my opinion may change but until then I'm just reminded of the unwarranted excitement over Terry Dixon and Conor Henderson.

You're right, that would probably be the ideal solution - as you point out, we do have a bit of depth in midfield at the moment and it is important that we solidify the best options over the coming months so a B international or two would give us the opportunity to move players like Grealish, Murray and Carruthers up a level in international play without disrupting preparations too much. But it is important to think about players who may not be quite ready for international competition just yet but could possibly come of age over the next campaign and try to gauge the right time to bring them into the fold.

The comparisons with Terry Dixon and Conor Henderson are incorrect, quite simply because they have only played one league game between them (and a few cup ties) - Dixon's career was hampered by injury, while Henderson just didn't make the grade at Arsenal but could yet come good, having landed at Hull, which is quickly becoming the club for talented Irish midfielders seeking a renaissance after seeing their careers take a bit of a dip. Grealish, on the other hand, has fifteen games and three goals (two of which were beauties) under his belt at the moment and while, yes it's "only" League One, he's still going up against decent quality, established professionals. As regards him being untested at international, that's precisely why I'm putting forward the possibility of testing him in friendlies in advance of Euro 2016.

[CraftyToePoke]

when Euro 2016 kicks off. It's more likely that two of Gibson, McCarthy, Hendrick and McCann will be the starting central midfield partnership at that time,

Not liking Meyler at all then tets ?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

You're right, that would probably be the ideal solution - as you point out, we do have a bit of depth in midfield at the moment and it is important that we solidify the best options over the coming months so a B international or two would give us the opportunity to move players like Grealish, Murray and Carruthers up a level in international play without disrupting preparations too much. But it is important to think about players who may not be quite ready for international competition just yet but could possibly come of age over the next campaign and try to gauge the right time to bring them into the fold.

The comparisons with Terry Dixon and Conor Henderson are incorrect, quite simply because they have only played one league game between them (and a few cup ties) - Dixon's career was hampered by injury, while Henderson just didn't make the grade at Arsenal but could yet come good, having landed at Hull, which is quickly becoming the club for talented Irish midfielders seeking a renaissance after seeing their careers take a bit of a dip. Grealish, on the other hand, has fifteen games and three goals (two of which were beauties) under his belt at the moment and while, yes it's "only" League One, he's still going up against decent quality, established professionals. As regards him being untested at international, that's precisely why I'm putting forward the possibility of testing him in friendlies in advance of Euro 2016.

We are just going to have to disagree. I think it's it's impractical to select Grealish in squads before the European Championships, let alone give him playing time. We went 5 years without giving Wes Hoolahan or Andy Reid a chance because of the eccentric we had managing us. We finally start giving them playing time and are reaping the dividends with good performances at club and international level; now we push them aside and start testing out an 18 year old kid, who is currently entrenched in a League One relegation battle, in matches that we should be using to figure out the best system to play in the Qualifiers and the best available personnel who have a realistic chance of playing? I think it would be unfair on Hoolahan, Reid and another half-dozen players who are playing at much higher level than Grealish. I even think it would be unfair to place these expectations on Grealish.

He hasn't even got half a season under his belt yet. Let him complete the season at Notts County and see what Paul Lambert's plans are in the summer. There is plenty of time for him to get selected, if his form merits it; even in this qualifying campaign.

But Serbia, and as it stands the summer friendlies, are much too soon.

[tetsujin1979]

Not liking Meyler at all then tets ?

no, I do like him. Just didn't think of him when I was thinking of central midfielders. Very similar player to McCarthy, with an added goalscoring option. If you think that the central midfield partnership would be a holding player and a box-to-box player, he wouldn't be the first player to come to mind for either role. Assuming Gibson and McCarthy both stay at Everton, and stay fit, you'd have to imagine they'd be the starting partnership at international level

[Charlie Darwin]

no, I do like him. Just didn't think of him when I was thinking of central midfielders. Very similar player to McCarthy, with an added goalscoring option. If you think that the central midfield partnership would be a holding player and a box-to-box player, he wouldn't be the first player to come to mind for either role. Assuming Gibson and McCarthy both stay at Everton, and stay fit, you'd have to imagine they'd be the starting partnership at international level

Meyler would come to mind as more of a box to box player to me than McCarthy. I suspect when Gibson is fit that O'Neill will go with them whenever possible and play them similar to McCarthy and Barry at Everton, both hanging back to allow the full backs a bit more freedom going forward.

[samhaydenjr]

We are just going to have to disagree. I think it's it's impractical to select Grealish in squads before the European Championships, let alone give him playing time. We went 5 years without giving Wes Hoolahan or Andy Reid a chance because of the eccentric we had managing us. We finally start giving them playing time and are reaping the dividends with good performances at club and international level; now we push them aside and start testing out an 18 year old kid, who is currently entrenched in a League One relegation battle, in matches that we should be using to figure out the best system to play in the Qualifiers and the best available personnel who have a realistic chance of playing? I think it would be unfair on Hoolahan, Reid and another half-dozen players who are playing at much higher level than Grealish. I even think it would be unfair to place these expectations on Grealish.

He hasn't even got half a season under his belt yet. Let him complete the season at Notts County and see what Paul Lambert's plans are in the summer. There is plenty of time for him to get selected, if his form merits it; even in this qualifying campaign.

But Serbia, and as it stands the summer friendlies, are much too soon.

Fair enough...I know it would be a long shot to have him ready in time for the start of the qualifiers and the 2015 games are probably a more realistic target...but if he bangs in four more goals by mid-February, I'm totally coming back to advocate a call-up for him ...still think a B international would be an excellent option, particularly right now as we have a handful of young up-and-comers coming through as well as a few fringe players who could benefit with a run-out.

[Yard of Pace]

Was Trap our first manager (of "modren times") not to have a B international?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Was Trap our first manager (of "modren times") not to have a B international?

The Trapattoni era had one, way back in 2008.

[Yard of Pace]

The Trapattoni era had one, way back in 2008.

Doh, the game Wes played in. I was thinking the last one was the Scotland game.

[tetsujin1979]

Was Trap our first manager (of "modren times") not to have a B international?

Did Kerr have one?

[Charlie Darwin]

Kerr had one against Scotland I thought. In reality, these days, a B game against some Championship team is all you're going to get, and that's hardly going to be a huge challenge for mostly Championship and League One players.

[back of the net]

Kerr had one against Scotland I thought. In reality, these days, a B game against some Championship team is all you're going to get, and that's hardly going to be a huge challenge for mostly Championship and League One players.

The 2-0 against scotland in hampden? Was that a B intl?

Or am I confused?