Eligibility Rules, Okay

[Olé Olé]

Paddy has not switched and remains eligible for selection by the FAI.

This is also confirmed in his player profile on UEFA's website. UEFA had Ireland recorded as his country whilst he was playing for Dundalk in the Europa League: http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/...ile/index.html

He looks like he'll be a key player for Dundalk this season and has started the season well. Still only 24, I can definitely see him winning senior international caps in the future.



Or what of Alex Bruce?

Yeah, McEleney has some serious ability. He's not exactly the style of player we traditionally churn out too. Think he's very likely to win a senior cap, yes.

Agreed re Alex Bruce. Bruce was more of a mercenary though. I got the feeling from Shane McEeleney that he would have jumped at the chance to play for Ireland (as he did at underage level) but thought it was impossible so false hope from the NI set-up lured him in.

It's also grossly unfair of O'Neill to single out a 16 year-old (Jordan McEneff) for this type of criticism. I'm not sure of the practicalities of it but I have to assume that it would be quite difficult for anyone below that age to switch to Ireland. Moving across to England makes it as easy for him to travel to Belfast or Dublin for international duty, from a practical point of view, and it's a big decision to make given that he's seen enough of lads who grew up supporting Ireland play for Northern Ireland. I don't think it's very nice either to make a 16 year-old the centre of the argument. Enough young lads (like Patrick McEleney, for example) have gone over to England and failed to settle, without the distraction of a high profile figure like Michael O'Neill criticizing their actions in the media.

[Olé Olé]

Hale and McEneff at 17 and 16 respectively look real prospects. Hale was singled out for praise by the Birmingham under 23 manager there a couple of weeks ago. That's some going for a 17 year-old: http://www.bcfc.com/news/article/201...y-3598538.aspx

Both aged 17 but Ronan Hale and Glen McAuley... fingers crossed.

[geysir]

a little snip

It's also grossly unfair of O'Neill to single out a 16 year-old (Jordan McEneff) for this type of criticism.

The player is singled out but O'Neill is just critical of what he perceives to be FAI policy, not of the decision by the players.

The FAI deny poaching, they don't indulge in such sordid actions, instead it's called the FAI's talent identification program.

[Olé Olé]

a little snip

The player is singled out but O'Neill is just critical of what he perceives to be FAI policy, not of the decision by the players.

O'Neill said: "With Jordan McEneff I feel for our coaching staff who had worked with the boy for three tears in Club NI.

"He captained our Under-16 Victory Shield side and after that he opted out. There was nothing we could do.

I think it's fairly critical to mention how he feels for his coaching staff after they poured 3 years work into McEneff. Is he not inferring he wasted their time? I also think it's silly asking of the Hales "why did they play for Northern Ireland to begin with?". I don't know the ins and outs but the FAI aren't running schools football up there, are they? And the Hales played with an IFA side in Cliftonville which again means they are in the IFA system, doesn't it? It's a tricky situation for them. And McEneff.

[liamoo11]

Hale and McEneff at 17 and 16 respectively look real prospects. Hale was singled out for praise by the Birmingham under 23 manager there a couple of weeks ago. That's some going for a 17 year-old: http://www.bcfc.com/news/article/201...y-3598538.aspx

Both aged 17 but Ronan Hale and Glen McAuley... fingers crossed.

Mallon the lad in the video that scored the cracker there for Sheffield utd s a northern boy who switched to us last season

[geysir]

I think it's fairly critical to mention how he feels for his coaching staff after they poured 3 years work into McEneff. Is he not inferring he wasted their time? I also think it's silly asking of the Hales "why did they play for Northern Ireland to begin with?". I don't know the ins and outs but the FAI aren't running schools football up there, are they? And the Hales played with an IFA side in Cliftonville which again means they are in the IFA system, doesn't it? It's a tricky situation for them. And McEneff.

3 tears not 3 years
You were the one inferring that criticism of McAnuff is implied in what O'Neill is quoted as saying and I don't read that.
However you have a very valid point about Michael O'Neill (the bad O'Neill).
In that Belfast Live article which I hadn't read, he is clearly insinuating disdain towards the Hale brothers.

"I heard about the Hale brothers – Aston Villa's Rory and Birmingham City's Ronan – who made the switch. Well then, why did they play for Northern Ireland to begin with?

"If you're going to follow your dream, follow it. But I think it leaves us in a particular situation. The purpose of Club NI is to develop the players but also to build that link with them"

[Charlie Darwin]

Maybe he asked Sean Scannell the same question and that's why our Sean never showed any sign of interest in switching.

[Olé Olé]

3 tears not 3 years
You were the one inferring that criticism of McAnuff is implied in what O'Neill is quoted as saying and I don't read that.
However you have a very valid point about Michael O'Neill (the bad O'Neill).
In that Belfast Live article which I hadn't read, he is clearly insinuating disdain towards the Hale brothers.

"I heard about the Hale brothers – Aston Villa's Rory and Birmingham City's Ronan – who made the switch. Well then, why did they play for Northern Ireland to begin with?

"If you're going to follow your dream, follow it. But I think it leaves us in a particular situation. The purpose of Club NI is to develop the players but also to build that link with them"

Speaking of the good and bad O'Neill, Martin hasn't shown any ill-feeling towards players who spend enough time in the NI underage system. Shane Duffy and James McClean played to under 21 there (albeit Duffy was young) and they are two likely picks at present. Gibson and Wilson have featured heavily too. One reason for that might be O'Neill's ability (which he has always demonstrated, even before taking us over) to appreciate the complexity of the issue and the difficulty it presents young lads.

Maybe the fact that this is one chapter in a very storied career for O'Neill and not by far and away the biggest job, year, pressure and exposure he has ever experienced, unlike Michael, is another aspect. It's a precarious position for Michael and deflects plenty of attention away from his side too, given how contentious the issue probably is.

[geysir]

These nordies use to come in dribs and drabs now they're coming in pairs.

I see the Hales are the grandchildren of the legendary Danny Hale.
And according to Danny Hale bio on History of Dundalk fc

'He (Danny) collected a runner-up medal in the 1971 Irish Cup final when Derry fell to a Martin O’Neill-inspired Distillery.'

[DannyInvincible]

These nordies use to come in dribs and drabs now they're coming in pairs.

I see the Hales are the grandchildren of the legendary Danny Hale.
And according to Danny Hale bio on History of Dundalk fc

'He (Danny) collected a runner-up medal in the 1971 Irish Cup final when Derry fell to a Martin O’Neill-inspired Distillery.'

Something I'd posted on Danny Hale a few months ago that might be of interest if you missed it:

It's mentioned there that Ronan Hale is the grandson of Danny Hale, formerly of Crusaders. I'd asked Jimmy McGeough Sr. a while back had he known of any other players who'd liked to have played for the FAI around the time he was trying to get approval for it back in the late '60s and he actually mentioned Danny Hale along with Danny Trainor. I see Hale had 3 "amateur caps" for the IFA in the early '60s; not sure what the official status of those were exactly.

[ifk101]

Paddy has not switched and remains eligible for selection by the FAI.

Are you sure? He was quite vocal about switching to the IFA in the past.

[geysir]

Something I'd posted on Danny Hale a few months ago that might be of interest if you missed it:

I remember it now that you repost it, but I thought it was longer than a few months ago.

According to the linked Danny Hale bio
'His biggest football disappointment came when he was with Dundalk. A lifelong Glasgow Celtic supporter, he was selected on the League of Ireland team to play the Scottish League, but a last minute injury deprived him of the opportunity to play at Parkhead.'

If the Hale brothers turn up and meet Martin, there's a good chance he will remind them that he played against their grandad in the 1971 cup final and went home with the winners medal and motm acclaim.

[Olé Olé]

Are you sure? He was quite vocal about switching to the IFA in the past.

http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3942/...eam-derry-city

If this hasn't gone through then you'd have to imagine it was the lack of selection of his brother that caused cold feet. Or maybe it has gone through and NI just haven't selected him?

[Olé Olé]

These nordies use to come in dribs and drabs now they're coming in pairs.

I see the Hales are the grandchildren of the legendary Danny Hale.
And according to Danny Hale bio on History of Dundalk fc

'He (Danny) collected a runner-up medal in the 1971 Irish Cup final when Derry fell to a Martin O’Neill-inspired Distillery.'

Seeing the success of Duffy and McClean playing at the Euros has to have made an impact. Perhaps previous to that even you had Marc Wilson playing regularly. Those factors have to have made an impact. Also, even if he isn't picking up the phone to these lads, the simple fact that MON is in situ as our manager and how he has made such an impact and impression probably demonstrates (even if it didn't need to be) how fluid the transition can be for lads from the north.

Actually, I hadn't considered that but O'Neill being manager for us has definitely had an indirect impact on the decision.

We missed out on a couple of lads that we thought might side with us over the last few years- Shane Ferguson, Ryan McLaughlin, Rory Donnelly, Michael Duffy. The tide might be after turning somewhat.

[geysir]

http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3942/...eam-derry-city

If this hasn't gone through then you'd have to imagine it was the lack of selection of his brother that caused cold feet. Or maybe it has gone through and NI just haven't selected him?

He's still registered as ROI on uefa website. He hasn't been selected for any NI international squad since.
Even if he officially requested a switch to NI at the time in 2012, he would still be eligible for us as he hasn't played for that lot yet.
It's great to see such a talent playing in the LOI.

[geysir]

Maybe of some interest, here's a link to a 20 page research, published in the International Review for the Sociology of Sport.
Probably a few years old.
Based on extracts from a series of interviews with northern nationalist players, the study situates their lived experiences within the broader socio-political landscape of
Northern Ireland, highlighting a range of factors from the perceived culpability of the Irish
Football Association (IFA) to sporting pragmatism on the part of the players.
Interviews with Eugene Ferry, Patrick McEleney, Shane McEleney, Patrick McCourt, Niall McGinn and Michael Gault


Narratives of northern nationalist footballers in NI

[DannyInvincible]

Maybe of some interest, here's a link to a 20 page research, published in the International Review for the Sociology of Sport.
Probably a few years old.
Based on extracts from a series of interviews with northern nationalist players, the study situates their lived experiences within the broader socio-political landscape of
Northern Ireland, highlighting a range of factors from the perceived culpability of the Irish
Football Association (IFA) to sporting pragmatism on the part of the players.
Interviews with Eugene Ferry, Patrick McEleney, Shane McEleney, Patrick McCourt, Niall McGinn and Michael Gault


Narratives of northern nationalist footballers in NI

Heh, co. down green posted that back in 2012 and I've quoted excerpts from it quite a few times in this thread since.

'Tis a very interesting and worthwhile read, mind.

[Charlie Darwin]

http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3942/...eam-derry-city

If this hasn't gone through then you'd have to imagine it was the lack of selection of his brother that caused cold feet. Or maybe it has gone through and NI just haven't selected him?

He confirmed himself the switch never went through. He's eligible for Ireland if he was called up tomorrow.

[DannyInvincible]

Are you sure? He was quite vocal about switching to the IFA in the past.

One hundred per cent certain.

He was going to switch, true, and was vocal about Trapattoni ignoring the League of Ireland as being a motivating factor in his desire to switch, but then raised an issue over an understanding that opting for the IFA would have necessitated him to obtain a British passport. To the best of my knowledge, players can play for the IFA with just an Irish passport, so long as their eligibility is otherwise verified by the IFA, so I'm not sure McEleney had the correct info on that*, but, for whatever the reason anyway, he never actually made the switch from FAI to IFA in the end. I'll see if I can get further info on that and the passport thing.

The fact his 2016-17 Champions League and Europa League player profiles (due to his participation in both competitions for Dundalk) on UEFA's website state his country is Ireland - and not NI - is public proof (if needed) of his present registration with the FAI.

http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3942/...eam-derry-city

If this hasn't gone through then you'd have to imagine it was the lack of selection of his brother that caused cold feet. Or maybe it has gone through and NI just haven't selected him?

It hadn't gone through by that point, which was October of 2012. Goal had misreported.

In August of 2013, he spoke to the Sentinel in Derry and referred to the prospect of having to apply for a British passport as a scuppering "disaster":

Patrick McEleney claims he requires a British passport in order to finalise his clearance to play for the IFA (see around 1:30 of the video here): http://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk...test-1-5344505

"Disaster!"

Is whoever informed him that such is a requirement correct though? Does he imply that Michael O'Neill told him that?

I understood IFA players were not required to possess British passports. In fact, I know certain players have played for IFA under-age teams in competitive fixtures and have been selected for the senior squad whilst being in possession of just an Irish passport.

*Perhaps as formal switches are handled, adjudicated upon and approved by FIFA's Players' Status Committee, the process is a bit more stringent and a passport for the nationality of the beneficiary association is required as supporting documentary evidence of eligibility, whereas I understand it to be at least the case that the IFA otherwise or ordinarily have the (exceptional) right to verify the eligibility of their non-switching Irish passport-holding players who have never played for another association. I don't think players sharing the general circumstances of those from the latter group - be they Irish passport-holders seeking to play for the IFA or other nationals seeking to play for any other association - would have to undergo a verification process overseen by the Players' Status Committee, but I'm open to correction on that. Don't match officials verify their documents? I don't think the Players' Status Committee have to adjudicate upon anything for such players before they play for what would be their original and only association.

[geysir]

Heh, co. down green posted that back in 2012 and I've quoted excerpts from it quite a few times in this thread since.

'Tis a very interesting and worthwhile read, mind.

At least my link gave you free access to the whole article, though I hope you paid your $2.

Isn't it nice for you nordies to have so many people interested in what you've to say about yourselves, the trials and tribulations of growing up as a nationalist and affirming your ethnic identity