Eligibility Rules, Okay

[DannyInvincible]

'Delaney dismisses IFA defection fears after O'Neill appointment': http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3942/...s-after-oneill

The FAI chief has denied suggestions that more players will opt for the Boys in Green over Northern Ireland after it was announced that Martin O'Neill would manage Ireland

The chief executive of the Football Association of Ireland (FAI) has played down suggestions that the appointment of Martin O'Neill as manager of the Republic of Ireland will lead to an upsurge in players switching international allegiance.

O'Neill, who hails from Derry, is a former Northern Ireland international, captaining the team during the 1982 World Cup in Spain and is set to be officially unveiled as Ireland manager on Saturday November 9.

Players such as Wigan Athletic winger James McClean, Stoke City's Marc Wilson and Everton midfielder Darron Gibson each played for Northern Ireland youth teams before switching to the Republic of Ireland.

Speaking on Newstalk, the FAI chief dismissed the idea that the appointment of O'Neill would have a detrimental effect on the Irish Football Association (IFA), noting that players had been opting for the Republic of Ireland for several years.

"That issue has been there long before Martin O'Neill coming to manage Ireland," said Delaney.

He added: "I think the players make up their own mind. James McClean, Darron Gibson, players like that have declared for the Republic more because of their traditional backgrounds and they want to play for the Republic as opposed to the north of Ireland [sic].

"People like James McClean, who grew up in Derry, Darron Gibson, young [Marc] Wilson, they've always wanted to play for the Republic of Ireland at the senior level."

In 2010, the IFA took a case against the FAI and Fifa to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in a bid to stop players from switching association. However, the appeal was unsuccessful and the court ruled against the IFA.

[BonnieShels]

Soooo... M O'Neill isn't worried about M O'Neill...

Northern boss not worried about O'Neill post
Northern Ireland manager Michael O'Neill does not expect the appointment of Martin O'Neill as Republic of Ireland boss to have a significant impact on the problematic issue of player eligibility.

One of the touchstones of Michael O'Neill's tenure at Windsor Avenue has been his attempt to stem the flow of talented Northern Irish-born talent to the Republic.

The likes of Darron Gibson, Marc Wilson and James McClean all went on to play for the Republic's senior team despite being born in the north, while a handful of young players have played at age-group level for Northern Ireland before taking advantage of a FIFA-ruling that allows them to switch to the FAI banner.

The Irish Football Association (IFA) has worked hard at grass roots level to buck that trend as well as persuading Alex Bruce to play for them despite earning two friendly caps for the Republic.

But the presence of Martin O'Neill, a celebrated former Northern Ireland captain, in the Republic dugout could prove a stumbling block.

His namesake believes that may not be the case though.

"I don't think it will be an issue at all to be honest," he told Press Association Sport.

"It doesn't really matter who is in charge of the Republic in terms of the eligibility question.

"My focus, pure and simple, is to make sure that our young players know what we are trying to do as an association and what we are trying to build with our younger players in terms of giving them the chance of having an international career.

"I know most of our young age-group footballers by name and have worked on the training pitch with them and hopefully that is a help.

"I've spoken to Martin on a few occasions and he was very helpful to me before I took this job and since.

"He'll just be another international manager to me, no different to Roy Hodgson, Chris Coleman or Gordon Strachan.

"This whole issue is probably more of a media thing that it is for me or Martin."

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/inter...t-oneill-post/

Who's gonna email RTE?

[geysir]

Can you elaborate on this case? How many years was he resident in Italy? Wouldn't it be similar to the likes of Noe Baba for us or, say, Saido Berahino for England anyway? For example, Berahino's family moved to England from Burundi when he was 10; he has since played for England at under-16 level and above. If a player acquires his nationality before the age of 18, it appears it is treated by FIFA as "a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence" and falls under the scope of regulation 5 which outlines the principle. Have I got that right or am I overlooking something fairly obvious? That element of the beast, I've always had difficulty with.

The Berahino one is interesting, not so much from a FIFA perspective, but from a UK Association perspective, if he has no blood line connection to an English parent/grandparent.
If he has no blood line, that would mean that a young kid of an immigrant or refugee family is regarded the same as English born by a UK association, once he gains UK nationality status through his parents gaining some permanent status in the the UK.

To get back to Osvaldo, he qualifies for italian citizenship - great grandfather connection, not the usual parent/grandparent path.
I will ignore exceptions.
Any nationality where residency is not part of the requirement, is accepted as satisfying Article 5.
One argument here is that as long as Osvaldo gets his Italian nationality before playing competitive underage for his first country (Argentina), he qualifies for new country (Italy) under article 5, - no residency requirement.

I say - he has to have had that Italian nationality at birth. Only a 2nd generation kid (born outside Italy) is born a dual national. and would qualify under article 5.
The child at birth is automatically a citizen of the nationality of the parent, as well as the country he is born in. A dual nationality at birth.
A 4th generation kid like Osvaldo, would be assuming a new nationality (Italian) because he has to apply for it. I say he has to satisfy article 7. and seeing as he has no italian grandparent, he has to satisfy residency requirement of article 17 - now article 7.

Article 7 clearly refers to article 5 when it says
-Any Player who refers to art. 5 par. 1 to assume a new nationality and who has not played international football in accordance with art. 5 par. 2 shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfils one of the following conditions:- etc etc

We discussed that one in minute detail before, somewhere/sometime. Article 7 applies to the player who has got the permanent nationality, not based on residence, but has acquired that new nationality. This bit makes the difference between the permanent nationality of article 5 and the permanent nationality of article 7 - 'Any Player who refers to art. 5 par. 1 to assume a new nationality'. Therefore the acquired permanent nationality, including the acquired permanent nationality without residence requirements, falls under article 7.

The qualitative difference is, that if he qualifies under article 5, no residency is required.
Qualifying under article 7, means 2 years- later changed to 5 years residency required, before Osvaldo could play competitive underage for italy.

Now you say if Osvaldo assumed that Italian nationality as a minor, then he satisfies the condition of article 5. Is there any example anywhere which supports that idea?
Osvaldo arrived to Italy on the day of his 20th birthday, I'd assume he had 'assumed' his Italian nationality before then, but exactly when is an unknown.

What you say is, if his Italian citizenship was acquired when he was a minor (<18 years old), that's the same as the kid of a family who had emigrated/refugee status to Italy. I don't agree with taht Danny, at least I regard it as a huge stretch to make. I think there's a difference re the kids status with the child of immigrants and how his eligibility is perceived by FIFA.
When a family emigrates to a new country, the children's status changes, I don't know the details of how it changes but there is a stage, once past, that the kid is regarded the same as one born in that new country. Maybe is has something to do with refugee. status. Therefore, say a kid is aged 12 when his family arrives to Ireland, the family gets permanent residency/nationality after 2 years, the kid gets Irish nationality. The kid from now on is regarded the same as Irish born, he can go to England at the age of 16, become a red hot footballer and declare for Ireland under article 5, without having to satisfy the full 5 years residence requirements of article 7.

Imo, Osvaldo's parents applying for Italian citizenship on his behalf from Argentina, is not the same and he would be regarded as assuming a new nationality, even though he was a minor.

[DannyInvincible]

Soooo... M O'Neill isn't worried about M O'Neill...



http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/inter...t-oneill-post/

Who's gonna email RTE?

It's one of the better attempts, so I'll let it pass.

Michael O'Neill has the right idea. As ever, the IFA must accept responsibility for their own affairs and be prepared to deal with the reality of their situation rather than moaning and blaming others for their perceived hardships. If northern-born players continue to switch to or declare for us, that'll still be entirely their own choice. They'll have decided that declaring for the FAI is preferable to playing for the IFA for whatever reason - perhaps, or evidently, because the IFA haven't been doing sufficient groundwork to ensure such players would see it as being in their best interests to play for the IFA - but it won't be because Martin O'Neill hoodwinked anyone or forced them to do something against their will. If the IFA want players to see them as a viable option, work harder. It's not the FAI's problem they don't shape up as a viable or appealing option in the minds of players eligible to play for them.

[Fixer82]

Flegs!!!!!!!

[DannyInvincible]

We discussed that one in minute detail before, somewhere/sometime.

Was it around here?: http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligib...=1#post1504486

Now you say if Osvaldo assumed that Italian nationality as a minor, then he satisfies the condition of article 5. Is there any example anywhere which supports that idea?

I only suggest it because I'd have thought the likes of Noe Baba's Irish citizenship would have been based on residence, yet he seemingly qualifies to play for us under article 5.

What you say is, if his Italian citizenship was acquired when he was a minor (<18 years old), that's the same as the kid of a family who had emigrated/refugee status to Italy. I don't agree with taht Danny, at least I regard it as a huge stretch to make. I think there's a difference re the kids status with the child of immigrants and how his eligibility is perceived by FIFA.
When a family emigrates to a new country, the children's status changes, I don't know the details of how it changes but there is a stage, once past, that the kid is regarded the same as one born in that new country. Maybe is has something to do with refugee. status. Therefore, say a kid is aged 12 when his family arrives to Ireland, the family gets permanent residency/nationality after 2 years, the kid gets Irish nationality. The kid from now on is regarded the same as Irish born, he can go to England at the age of 16, become a red hot footballer and declare for Ireland under article 5, without having to satisfy the full 5 years residence requirements of article 7.

Imo, Osvaldo's parents applying for Italian citizenship on his behalf from Argentina, is not the same and he would be regarded as assuming a new nationality, even though he was a minor.

Perhaps. I think we'd require further information on the status of respective citizens and the respective natures of their citizenships, without which we can only make educated guesses as to how and which regulations actually apply to them.

[DannyInvincible]

Delaney not out to get the IFA, after all: http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3942/...d-ireland-team

The FAI chief would like to see a "32-county soccer team" in Ireland but believes that it would only happen in the event of a political change

The chief executive of the Football Association of Ireland (FAI) has revealed that he would like to see a unified Ireland football team, but conceded that it would first have to happen "politically."

Speaking to Irish radio station Today FM, FAI chief John Delaney said that while he would personally like to see a "32-county soccer team" he respected the position of the Belfast-based Irish Football Association (IFA) which governs football in Northern Ireland.

"I think the country has to be united before anything like that happens. It has to happen politically before it can happen in a sporting way," he said.

"I would never say this as chief executive of the football association, but I've said this many times before: I'd love to see a 32-county soccer team.

"But that's more of an issue for the IFA than the FAI really in my opinion. I respect that they've got their own football team and that they're a member of Uefa.

"We get on very well with the members of the IFA. But I've always said that any 32-county soccer team would be inextricably linked to a political structure and I genuinely believe that."

[geysir]

Was it around here?: http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligib...=1#post1504486

No it hadn't got to do with Italians at all. It was in a thread before this this one, Just a pinpointed discussion somewhere about
what Any Player who refers to art. 5 par. 1 to assume a new nationality and who has not played international football
meant and what "who refers to article 5" meant.

I only suggest it because I'd have thought the likes of Noe Baba's Irish citizenship would have been based on residence, yet he seemingly qualifies to play for us under article 5.------
Perhaps. I think we'd require further information on the status of respective citizens and the respective natures of their citizenships, without which we can only make educated guesses as to how and which regulations actually apply to them.

Some information is already in the Noe Baba thread why he qualifies for a new nationality and how he becomes 'Irish of the soil', and the same probably applies to children of families who moved to Switzerland.
It's a stretch to guess other interpretations about Osvaldo, when the simple valid explanation exists, he qualified because of residency, article 7, he acquired a permanent nationality, just the same as any english born Irish player with an Irish grandparent but that wasn't enough for him to be eligible, he had to have residency as well. When the residency factor doesn't exist for such an example, then we can look for other reasons.
Well, you can look for other reasons

[DannyInvincible]

"3 ‘Granny Rulers’ that Martin O’Neill could look into calling up": http://thescore.thejournal.ie/irelan...64747-Nov2013/

They pinpoint Curtis Davies of Hull, Callum McManaman of Wigan and Patrick Bamford of Chelsea (on loan at MK Dons) as potential call-ups.

[BonnieShels]

Enda wants an all-Ireland team to play England on a biennial basis.

Taoiseach wants all-Ireland soccer team to play England in charity friendly
Taoiseach Enda Kenny has called for an all-Ireland soccer team to take on England every two years to raise money for children’s hospitals in Dublin and Belfast.

Mr Kenny said the idea could be attractive to everyone.

"It would be a gesture from the sports people that would have a profound impact," he said.

Mr Kenny was in Armagh at a conference on sport boosting reconciliation in Northern Ireland.

He said the Government was building a hospital for all the children of the island of Ireland.

"We could take on the might of England entirely for charity, for the children's hospitals (of Belfast and Dublin), for the children of the island, for research and development of what can impact on their little lives," he added.

"It is just a thought, it might be something that could become a reality."

He was asked whether he would be involving British Prime Minister David Cameron.

"The Prime Minister is a very engaging person but this is for the sporting organisations.

"The sport is about the children of the island. Wouldn't it be a wonderful thing if we could have an all-island soccer team playing England, perhaps on a bi-annual basis, playing in Ireland and England, the purpose of which would be the development of research and the development of both children's hospitals on the island of Ireland."

He said it could be a unique integration of sport and services for the children of Ireland.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/inter...d-soccer-team/

[Stuttgart88]

So he expects the FAI and IFA to give up the income from a home fixture (of which we have a limited number), and expects the FA to take external influence on its fixture list from the Taoiseach?

The gate money wouldn't be enough to cover the security costs!

After the Euros Kenny said we should have a 32 county footy team as if that'd suddenly make us catch up with Spain.

If Kenny wants to make a contribution to football here he could re-examine government attitude to the game, come clean about how previous governments have interfered with sensible plans for eircom Park, and put pressure, perhaps via the Dail Public Accounts Committee, into the workings of the FAI. The British parliament established an investigation into English football's governance, ours should start looking at our game.

If he is so keen to fund children's hospitals I'm sure that's within his gift too, via different channels.

I'm not being churlish - it's well intentioned - but I wish Kenny and Varadeker would use their office to exert something meaningful for Irish football.

[BonnieShels]

I agree. But it's also a sop given he was in Armagh at conference on reconciliation he had to come up with something.

[geysir]

He could have come up with a parting gift of reconciliation.
"And remember, we have a warm céad míle fáilte for any lads up here who want to declare for the FAI".

[CraftyToePoke]

"3 ‘Granny Rulers’ that Martin O’Neill could look into calling up": http://thescore.thejournal.ie/irelan...64747-Nov2013/

They pinpoint Curtis Davies of Hull, Callum McManaman of Wigan and Patrick Bamford of Chelsea (on loan at MK Dons) as potential call-ups.

Not a word about any of them actually wanting to play for us though. I wasn't aware at all of Davies till he cropped up on here recently. I suppose there are more too.

[dantheman]

Enda wants an all-Ireland team to play England on a biennial basis.




http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/inter...d-soccer-team/

I stopped reading at Enda!

[Cuyahoga]

Enda Kenny.jpg
Feckin Eejit !

[ArdeeBhoy]

"3 ‘Granny Rulers’ that Martin O’Neill could look into calling up": http://thescore.thejournal.ie/irelan...64747-Nov2013/

They pinpoint Curtis Davies of Hull, Callum McManaman of Wigan and Patrick Bamford of Chelsea (on loan at MK Dons) as potential call-ups.

http://www.facebook.com/TheScore.ie/...al_comments=25

Enda wants an all-Ireland team to play England on a biennial basis.




http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/inter...d-soccer-team/

This amused me though...
http://www.facebook.com/irishtimes/p...nt_id=27857074

[ifk101]

Ulster says no

http://irishfa.com/news/item/8699/irish-fa-statement/

[DannyInvincible]

Ulster says no

http://irishfa.com/news/item/8699/irish-fa-statement/

Ha, it was a load of bumkum rhetoric anyway, but humourous they saw fit to entertain the notion with an official response. Just in case anyone would think they're going soft...

[geysir]

Ha, it was a load of bumkum rhetoric anyway, but humourous they saw fit to entertain the notion with an official response. Just in case anyone would think they're going soft...

It's a good one, betrays more insecurity than a spotty teenager at his first dance.

Who can forget this gem, worthy of a place, framed on the wall of the national archive museum.
IFA STATEMENT