Eligibility Rules, Okay

[DannyInvincible]

I would find it impossible to reconcile playing for NI with my own nationalist identity. But then, identity is a complex realm, professional football isn't my career and playing football for a certain team doesn't necessarily have to amount to an expression of that team's national identity for the player concerned.

Some interesting comments from Eugene Ferry, Shane McEleney and Niall McGinn on their experience as nationalists playing for NI: http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligib...=1#post1619124

[Olé Olé]

Reading those comments, I just can't help but think why McGinn doesn't just abstain from playing for the North. If it's only a game of football then why doesn't he get these same mates around for a game of 5 a-side when he makes the trip home to Tyrone? Players might want to receive international recognition, but if a player also identifies themselves as a nationalist, then consequently, they themselves can not view playing for NI as 'international' recognition, can they?

I can't help but wonder what fuels Michael O'Neill to whisper into the ear of these types of players. Is he seeking to have the best players at his disposal in a calculated fashion for the interests of his career? Or does he simply Northern Irish and views himself as such?

[Sullivinho]

I would find it impossible to reconcile playing for NI with my own nationalist identity. But then, identity is a complex realm, professional football isn't my career and playing football for a certain team doesn't necessarily have to amount to an expression of that team's national identity for the player concerned.

Reading those comments, I just can't help but think why McGinn doesn't just abstain from playing for the North. If it's only a game of football then why doesn't he get these same mates around for a game of 5 a-side when he makes the trip home to Tyrone? Players might want to receive international recognition, but if a player also identifies themselves as a nationalist, then consequently, they themselves can not view playing for NI as 'international' recognition, can they?

As someone who'd rather play strip twister in prison than a game on behalf of the North, I have to wonder how much is 'international recognition' by a minnow worth, professionally? Would McGinn and co. be able to use it as leverage during contract negotiations and such? I know potential international caps are often included in transfer agreements as regards a player's future value. Professional tact > personal ambition?

[Not Brazil]

As for your own flag, it's a modified Union flag that, with the exception of one colour, adheres to the exact design specifications of a Union flag for obvious reasons; to convey a message that NI is British and proud. Or do you possess it for some other reason?

I see Cliftonville fans were portraying to Sky viewers yesterday evening how "British and proud" they are.

Look at the modified Union flag that, with the exception of one colour, adheres to the exact design specifications of a Union flag for obvious reasons:

http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/y...ps76e57b01.jpg

[DannyInvincible]

Maybe Cliftonville have some supporters who are proud to identify as British. Or it's more likely a p*ss-take.

[Bungle]

I can understand how alot of lads declare for the North, if they know in their hearts they aren't going to get game time for us. From a career perspective, it is better for you to play for the North against Portugal or Spain, then be sitting on your sweeney at home. I keep a close eye on the academies in England, from an Irish perspective, and I would say that McLaughlin is one of the stand out players in the youth system in England. If he keeps his progression, he has the class to be an excellent player in the future. It would be a great shame not to get him on board for us, as he would appear to be a big ROI fan. Anyhow, all is not lost and he may still end up playing with us. Regardless, good luck to the lad.

[Olé Olé]

I can understand how alot of lads declare for the North, if they know in their hearts they aren't going to get game time for us. From a career perspective, it is better for you to play for the North against Portugal or Spain, then be sitting on your sweeney at home. I keep a close eye on the academies in England, from an Irish perspective, and I would say that McLaughlin is one of the stand out players in the youth system in England. If he keeps his progression, he has the class to be an excellent player in the future. It would be a great shame not to get him on board for us, as he would appear to be a big ROI fan. Anyhow, all is not lost and he may still end up playing with us. Regardless, good luck to the lad.

In light of the recent craic with the McEleney's et al, I wish someone from the FAI would just pick up the phone and express interest. Although, I'd imagine it's been done already.

Brendan Rodgers being the manager at Liverpool, in light of his comments last year regarding Anton, could be another obstacle to this.

[Newryrep]

In light of the recent craic with the McEleney's et al, I wish someone from the FAI would just pick up the phone and express interest. Although, I'd imagine it's been done already.

Brendan Rodgers being the manager at Liverpool, in light of his comments last year regarding Anton, could be another obstacle to this.

I

I believe the FAI do accept incomming calls

[Olé Olé]

I

I believe the FAI do accept incomming calls

That's re-assuring. Give me one moment to practice my best Nordie accent and leave a voicemail saying I'm Ryan McLaughlin and to get back to me asap.

[DannyInvincible]

'Michael O'Neill: I would never criticise James McClean for turning down Northern Ireland': http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3942/...n-for-turning-

Northern Ireland manager Michael O'Neill has said that he would not criticise James McClean for choosing to play for the Republic of Ireland and stressed that he would speak with 'any player at any age level' in order to persuade them to play for Northern Ireland.

Since taking over the reins from Nigel Worthington, O'Neill has been actively encouraging players to opt for Northern Ireland at senior international level and has succeeded in persuading former Republic of Ireland youth internationals David McDaid Shane McEleney and Patrick McEleney to switch association.

"I deal with any player at any age level," O'Neill told the Derry Journal. "I will meet with that player and if necessary I will meet with his parents to outline why I believe they'd be better served to play for Northern Ireland.

"I took this approach with Shane and Patrick McEleney and they both agreed to play for Northern Ireland."

However, the former Shamrock Rovers boss failed to convince Sunderland winger James McClean that his interests would be 'better served' with the Northern Ireland team. Nevertheless, O'Neill conceded that the former Derry City player had 'every right' to make the decision to play for Giovanni Trapattoni's Boys in Green.

He continued: "I did the same with James McClean but unfortunately I wasn't successful. James had already made his decision before I was able to talk to him.

"James has every right to make his own decision and I would never criticise him for that. I'd hoped he would reconsider and play for Northern Ireland but that wasn't the case.

"It's part of football and you have to deal with it in a professional manner and move on. I have spoken to James subsequently and I have wished him well in his career," added the Northern Ireland boss.

[BonnieShels]

BLAH!!!

Hands of our kids etc.

[Gather round]

]If someone is a nationalist and supports Ireland, whilst living in the North, yet pull on the NI jersey, can they really be deemed nationalist?

Aye, no contradiction there. They're playing for a football team, not joining a UKIP/ DUP cabinet.

Does the term 'nationalist' not owe a significant degree of it's meaning and significance to the notion of a united Ireland?

Not necessarily. Most political parties in the South, broadly supported by public opinion, have done next to nothing for 90 years to redraw the border, let alone remove it entirely. So it would be harsh, hypocritical even, to tell someone that an injury time sub appearance in a friendly means they can't be a proper Fenian. No?

how much is 'international recognition' by a minnow worth, professionally? Would McGinn and co. be able to use it as leverage during contract negotiations and such? I know potential international caps are often included in transfer agreements as regards a player's future value. Professional tact > personal ambition?

International caps for England or Italy are worth a great deal commercially, for Northern Ireland or Slovenia much less, the South somewhere in the middle. That said, for a potential future star early appearances can be significant- for example Jonny Evans debuted against a Spain side including Raul, Xavi, Torres and co. and immediately looked at home.

I can understand how alot of lads declare for the North, if they know in their hearts they aren't going to get game time for us

Indeed, see also the numerous players in your squad from outside Ireland- which obviously makes it even harder for guys from NI to get into it.

[ArdeeBhoy]

And this adds exactly what to the debate?
Apart from the sum total of Zero, given you've said all this numerous times before...


Though you clearly need to consult an atlas to see there's no European country (or even mediocre football team) with the word 'South' in...

[ArdeeBhoy]

Interesting one that. The issue of identity gets kicked around here quite a lot. It's an interesting one to identify as nationalist but play for NI. Clearly, pragmatism and careerism provide the foundation for the decisions of the McEleney's et al. But is it really possible to identify as nationalist, whilst representing a side that in range of aspects, could be deemed completely at odds with your own beliefs? I've had a few posters jump down my throat when I make inferences like this, because this sort of attitude could be viewed as being contrary to someone's right to an identity.

If someone is a nationalist and supports Ireland, whilst living in the North, yet pull on the NI jersey, can they really be deemed nationalist? Does the term 'nationalist' not owe a significant degree of it's meaning and significance to the notion of a united Ireland? In which case someone saying their nationalist and pulling on the NI can't be referred to as such, no?

Hopefully not me? Though notice someone had a go, albeit in a very circular way...

I see Cliftonville fans were portraying to Sky viewers yesterday evening how "British and proud" they are.

Look at the modified Union flag that, with the exception of one colour, adheres to the exact design specifications of a Union flag for obvious reasons:

http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/y...ps76e57b01.jpg

It's called 'irony'.

Like Linfailed and their French tricolours...

[Gather round]

Just for the record, Professor Ardee has made a whopping 578 posts to this thread. You should publish the edited highlights as a PhD thesis in three volumes.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Well even one of my posts would be more fascinating than the aggregate total of the same, erm, circular 'argument'...


Anyway, thought you said you were going elsewhere for 'kicks'?

[DannyInvincible]

Posting habit stats? Where can these be attained? Perhaps I'd be best not looking at mine!

[ArdeeBhoy]

I think someone with too much time on their hands counted mine...

[Crosby87]

What would Arthur be getting his PhD in? Is there a doctorate for sexy internet posting?

[ifk101]

International caps for England or Italy are worth a great deal commercially

Not at all. What a player does at club level determines their market value. An international cap for said countries is just recognition of this.

for Northern Ireland or Slovenia much less, the South somewhere in the middle.

Whatever about Slovenia and South Korea, there's absolutely no "commercial" value in a Northern Ireland FA senior cap. Think Johnny Gorman for starters.

I think someone with too much time on their hands counted mine...

Worrying if that's the case.