According to a poster on OWC a while back, Adam Barton and Alex Bruce have Ulster Protestant roots, as did Alan Kernaghan.Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
That's why those OWB people are deluded.
Even it was an issue, they still consider everyone who's not like them to be a 'bead-rattler', also conveniently ignoring all the non-Catholics on the island, when everyone else is free to follow whatever religion (or not) they wish....
Katie Taylor is also an evangelical Protestant whom the FAI had no qualms in selecting to represent our women's team.
Danny you seem well up on the eligibility issue.
Just wondering if you know how Israeli/Palestinian eligibility works and if it's similar to ours?
Beram Kayal was born in Israeli territory (Jadeidi) and is seen as 'Israeli Palestinian' so was he eligible for both international teams before being capped for Israel?
It all depends on the nature of Palestinian and Israeli citizenship and the territorial scope of their respective applications. Not sure of the ins and outs of it all but as Palestine isn't an internationally-recognised independent state, I'm assuming the Israeli association have given the Palestinian association permission to join FIFA as they would otherwise have fallen under the jurisdiction of the Israeli association. As for who is eligible to play for Palestine, isn't there a recognised Palestinian citizenship now? I assume that is the prerequisite.
Arab Israelis like Kayal are Israeli citizens, however; I don't think they'd possess this Palestinian citizenship as, although they may identify as Arab and with the Palestinian people culturally, they're not legally entitled to Palestinian citizenship as they weren't born in Palestine. So, legally they are Israeli citizens even though they may identify as culturally Arab/Palestinian or as Palestinian nationals. The latter is a cultural rather than legal identity. (More on it here.) Some will refer to themselves as "Palestinian citizens of Israel". Anyway, whilst possibly identifying with Palestine, they would not necessarily be eligible to play for Palestine.
The above also assumes that the Palestinian citizenship, legally deriving from the Palestinian territories, applies on a 'jus soli' basis exclusively within the Palestinian territories, rather than extra-territorially into Israeli territory for those who wish to claim it, unless on a 'jus sanguinis' basis where it is passed down from generation to generation by Palestinian citizens originally born in the Palestinian Authority.
Nothing concrete there as I haven't read into it a huge deal, but that's how I imagine it works based upon my fairly limited knowledge of how citizenship operates in the Middle East. As far as I understand, it operates differently to our own citizenship, which operates on a 'jus soli' extra-territorial basis, similar to how Turkish citizenship applies extra-territorially on a 'jus soli' basis over an area of northern Cyprus recognised only by Turkey as the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. Kâzım Kâzım and Muzzy Izzet, for example, were eligible to play for Turkey through their northern Cypriot roots. Their families were not actually from the internationally-recognised territory of Turkey. That's more of a parallel if you're looking for one, although I don't think the Cypriot association disputes Turkey's facilitation of players in possession of Northern Cypriot citizenship who identify as Turkish and wish to play for Turkey in the same way the IFA took issue with northern-born Irish nationals who wished to declare for the FAI.
I recall reading a piece from a magazine once where a right-wing Israeli politician was complaining about the failure of Arab Israelis lining out for the Israeli football team to sing the Judaic Israeli national anthem. Pretty sure I posted it somewhere in this thread but can't put my finger on it right now. Will post it again if I can find it.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 18/08/2012 at 6:18 PM.
Cheers for that Danny. I thought it might be a case of players like Kayal choosing Israel to help further their career etc.
This is probably the piece you read www.yourmiddleeast.com
That's not the specific article I'd read, but it's the issue to which I was referring.
Not to the best of my knowledge anyway. I just don't think Kayal would have been eligible for Palestine (unless he had legally-recognised Palestinian heritage, of course).
Found this on Wikipedia:
Depending on his circumstances and satisfying at least one of the above criteria, perhaps Kayal is entitled to Palestinian citizenship and would have been eligible to represent Palestine.The Palestinian National Authority drafted a piece of legislation in 1995 outlining its Citizenship Law. Article 7 of this legislation defines a Palestinian as anyone who "(1) was a holder of Palestinian citizenship (other than Jews) before 15 May 1948; (2) was born to a Palestinian father; (3) was born in Palestine to a Palestinian mother even if the citizenship of the father is not known; (4) was born in Palestine to unknown parents; and (5) was born outside of Palestine to a Palestinian mother and to a father whose nationality was not known – provided that this person opts for Palestinian citizenship within one year after reaching maturity, that he notifies the minister of interior of his intention to become a Palestinian citizen, that he becomes habitually a resident of Palestine, and that the minister does not object to this applicant within one year from the time he receives the notice from the applicant.
BBC's Football League Show referred to Norwegian Stale Solbakken as the "first foreign manager" to take charge of Wolves. Which I'm sure will come as some surprise to Mick McCarthy.
Although he did represent Republic of Ireland internationally, he was born in Barnsley and has probably never lived full time in Ireland so I guess it's not that much of a stretch that they don't consider him "foreign".
Doesn't McCarthy identify as both English and Irish though? I recall him mentioning in an interview having discussed childhood confusion over his identity with his father after a day at school in Barnsley. His class was full of other children with Irish surnames like Fox and such, but he was in England and had been born there, after all. If memory serves me right, his father told him he was English and Irish, and McCarthy seemed to channel that towards the curious interviewer as explanation for how he personally identified.
McCarthy was listed as English in FIFA 12 too.
Owen Coyle is constantly referred to as a "Scot" by the English media, in the same manner.
But Hargreaves, of course, is English.
See 5:10 for the Mick McCarthy interview I was talking about:
Had forgotten it was in 'Green Is the Colour'.
Lawrenson just makes me go GAH!!!
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
An ignorant and insulting comment piece by Kenny Shiels on the "granny rule": http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/f...le-bad-1274654
...
I don’t agree with the “granny rule” which makes Kris [Commons] and others like him eligible for international football.
I feel as if international football has lost its identity. There are too many players being picked for countries they weren’t born in.
I feel they should only be picked if they’ve lived there for five years or their parents were born there.
I don’t think players born in England should play for Scotland.
Otherwise why not just change the name to Northern England.
Or the Republic of Ireland could change their name to England Reserves.
The best players in Scotland’s history – Kenny Dalglish, Graeme Souness, Denis Law, Jim Baxter and Jimmy
Johnstone were all born here – and that’s how it should be.
There are too many players being picked from outside both the Irish teams and Scotland. In fact some who played for Northern Ireland had never even been in the country.
Some players just see it as a chance to play international football, not because they love the country.
I look at the likes of Cammy Bell and Craig Bryson who used to be with us at Kilmarnock who miss out yet they’re real Scots.
The Republic of Ireland have a bigger pool to pick from than most western European countries. There are more Irish people living in England than in the Republic.
Their team that did well under Jack Charlton were mostly English. You can’t say that was the Republic, it was players representing them.
Why would Ray Houghton or Aiden McGeady play for the Republic? It’s wrong.
And there were outsiders picked for Northern Ireland under the last regime who were not as good as players born in the country.
Germany have also exploited the rule but look at world champions Spain, the team we all aspire to be like.
How many players do they use born outside their borders? None.
I don’t see how this rule is working and it’s one of the reasons I left my job with Northern Ireland.
I was there as youth team manager but I stuck to my principles and wouldn’t use a player not born in Northern Ireland.
You could say my principles disadvantaged me but we had a successful group of players in that period.
Players had an affinity for each other and were proud to play for their country.
I think the rule should be one generation not two and you should be born in that country or brought up there.
You have situations where families move away for a year and the child is born in another country but they might not be brought up there.
I believe you need to have an identity with the country your represent.
So after all of that gibberish he says this:
If I could roll my eyes as much as I want to I would blind myself.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Imagine a world where there were players born in England who had Scottish parents! I agree with Kenny Shiels, the entire idea of people identifying with a country behind arbitrary political borders is absurd. Everybody should identify with the borders drawn up by politicians because politicians are never wrong. Just look at Fianna Fail.I feel they should only be picked if they’ve lived there for five years or their parents were born there.
I don’t think players born in England should play for Scotland.
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