Eligibility Rules, Okay

[Not Brazil]

if the IFA were to somehow convince FIFA to regard Irish nationality as a shared nationality, it would spark uproar within the nationalist community.

But is it not a shared Nationality, in practice?

A Nationality from birth available to people in two jurisdictions - two territories in FIFA speak.

Why should Republic of Ireland Nationals be treated any differently to anyone else?

[Not Brazil]

Are there not claims that the IFA ignored the merits of some Derry kids? That's a hard one to prove concretely and then you face counter charges of being a mope. Probably you have to add IFA incompetence into it as well. It's difficult to escape the incompetence factor. When you have IFA incompetence combined with a IFA selection policy in an area with a past history of discrimination with a proportion of it institutionalised, it's quite rational to ponder about the IFA's ability to get itself into another mess.

Such mopery.

[geysir]

Well they are either
A) Going back to the initial offer by FIFA, to have everyone born on Ireland eligible for NI. This was approved by FAI, so we have to assume necessary provisions would be put in place RE article 6. This would be pointless now for the same reason it was then.

B)
The IFA go to FIFA with their own 'island of ireland' idea, thus impacting article 6 and bringing about what you've alluded to. Why would FIFA ever agree to this and what reasons would the IFA even suggest it?

There were 2 compromises offered by FIFA way back in 2007. The first compromise contained restrictions similar to article 18, the FAI rejected that.
The 2nd compromise was the 2 way open eligibility with the requirement that the 2 associations work out the details. The FAI accepted that compromise offer by FIFA but there is no indication what criteria for eligibility the FAI would accept. Based on their blank rejection of the first compromise, the FAI most probably would not have agreed to the eligibility restrictions contained in article 16 or article 18, being contained in the 2nd compromise.
We can only speculate what eligibility criteria the FAI would have accepted for the 2nd compromise but I suspect nothing less than a fundamental born on the island of Ireland eligibility and it follows that there most probably would have to be a new eligibility statute.

[Not Brazil]

There isn't "discrimination of any kind" in NB's proposal for the Northern Ireland FA. It's a pointless exercise but not discriminatory in its nature.

Being honest with with yourself and true to your beliefs is never pointless.

Removing shysters akin to McClean from our development squads from Under19 upwards is a key objective.

If people want to be dishonest with themselves, that'll be on their shoulders.

[geysir]

There isn't "discrimination of any kind" in NB's proposal for the Northern Ireland FA. It's a pointless exercise but not discriminatory in its nature.

I have no defined opinion on what the proposal is. There is a degree of discrimination in it but I have not claimed that that discrimination is unjust or prejudicial.
My first point made a few days ago in relation to this proposal was that the IFA would be very likely to balls it up for the reasons I have repeated.

[Not Brazil]

I have no defined opinion on what the proposal is. There is a degree of discrimination in it but I have not claimed that that discrimination is unjust or prejudicial.
My first point made a few days ago in relation to this proposal was that the IFA would be very likely to balls it up for the reasons I have repeated.

Ethnic cleansing I think you referred to, mo chara.

[ifk101]

Being honest with with yourself and true to your beliefs is never pointless.

Removing shysters akin to McClean from our development squads from Under19 upwards is a key objective.

If people want to be dishonest with themselves, that'll be on their shoulders.

But ....

A player choosing to go down the FAI road at Under 19, can switch to the IFA if things change for him or don't work out with the FAI at a later date.

Why would this be acceptable? Is this not a case of players being dishonest with themselves and not true to their beliefs? If they are willingness to play for the Northern Ireland FA after to failing to make the grade with the association that is true to their beliefs, is this not simply a case of career enhancing in the same manner as a player that agrees to your proposal but decides to switch at a later date?

[ArdeeBhoy]

And he still hasn't mastered 'Multi-quote'...



Not to mention inventing a storm in a teacup.

[geysir]

Ethnic cleansing I think you referred to, mo chara.

As I wrote I have no defined opinion on this proposal.
Some time ago I wrote on how such a proposal could be perceived if it were put into practice.
'This pledging your allegiance to NI plan at the age of 18 could well be regarded as ethnic cleansing, cleaning out the players who are not yet decided as to where their first choice lies. A meritocracy being trumped by an exhibition of servility.'

A speculation about a possible perception based on a conditional is not a defined opinion. However, judging by your tendency to personalise your replies in a self righteous haughty manner, I suspect the chances of that happening with the IFA are high.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ha ha, classic last sentence there geysir.

For all your other 'faults'. As defined by our mutual friend.

[Not Brazil]

As I wrote I have no defined opinion on this proposal.
Some time ago I wrote on how such a proposal could be perceived if it were put into practice.
'This pledging your allegiance to NI plan at the age of 18 could well be regarded as ethnic cleansing, cleaning out the players who are not yet decided as to where their first choice lies. A meritocracy being trumped by an exhibition of servility.'

It coould only be construed as "ethnic cleansing" by idiotic people.

Having a preference to select and develop players, at aged 18 and upwards, who have expressed a clear ambition to represent the Association at Senior International level is not, by any rational stretch of even the most vivid of imaginations, "ethnic cleansing".

Why would this be acceptable? Is this not a case of players being dishonest with themselves and not true to their beliefs? If they are willingness to play for the Northern Ireland FA after to failing to make the grade with the association that is true to their beliefs, is this not simply a case of career enhancing in the same manner as a player that agrees to your proposal but decides to switch at a later date?

Seriously, have you problems with reading?

Of course it's acceptable - the player will have chased his boyhood dream with the south, before commiting to the Irish Football Association.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ah, the dreams thing. Though the atlas is still desperately needed.

It has been a while I suppose.

[ifk101]

Seriously, have you problems with reading?

Seriously ....

Of course it's acceptable - the player will have chased his boyhood dream with the south, before commiting to the Irish Football Association.

But by switching to Ireland, the player makes his honourable choice by seeking to represent the association true to his beliefs. By subsequently returning to the Northern Ireland FA fold after failing to make the grade, is the player not "dishonest" to himself? Should the player not continue to endeavour for the rest of his playing career to make the Ireland team, rather than falling back on the Northern Ireland FA who are not true to his beliefs?

[DannyInvincible]

The anti-discrimination is in the statutes under Article 3
“Discrimination of any kind against a country, private person or group of people on account of ethnic origin, gender, language, religion, politics or any other reason is strictly prohibited and punishable by suspension or expulsion.”

FIFA's goal is to abolish all form of discrimination in football. There is little doubt that an Association bringing in a racial quota would incur sanctions. But I presume the questionable deed (racial quotas) would have to be done. The French Federation were possibly just at a proposal stage by the time it leaked out into the public. Perhaps some inside the FFF thought that an association could whatever they wanted in their selection policy for weeding out a proportion of kids who were more likely to be disloyal.

Whilst not breaching any of the specific eligibility statutes, what you say is probably true. However, as you highlight, actually proving discrimination would be nigh impossible, especially if the association's strategy was informal and confidential. Then, would NB's proposal actually be discriminatory? Certainly, to use the word in its most neutral sense, selecting players and not selecting others is, by definition, discriminatory. But associations are entitled to select who they wish, or to engage in that form of discrimination, if you will. How does one prove they're engaging in the malign or proscribed form of discrimination where the players' (non-)selections are based on something beyond just the abilities of the players concerned? Could NB's proposal be interpreted as engaging in this malign form of discrimination?

Are there not claims that the IFA ignored the merits of some Derry kids?

There are many people in Derry who perceive an anti-Derry bias within the IFA. That's a bit unfair on the IFA, however; what they're also failing to highlight are the other anti-Derry biases within the FAI, UEFA, FIFA, the Stormont government, the UK government and the EU.

[Predator]

But by switching to Ireland, the player makes his honourable choice by seeking to represent the association true to his beliefs. By subsequently returning to the Northern Ireland FA fold after failing to make the grade, is the player not "dishonest" to himself? Should the player not continue to endeavour for the rest of his playing career to make the Ireland team, rather than falling back on the Northern Ireland FA who are not true to his beliefs?

It doesn't matter if the player is dishonest as long as he's committed to playing for the IFA and no one else. The dishonesty and integrity gambit is therefore a bit inconsistent.

[Predator]

Here's an idea: The football association of the north east of Ireland could accept the situation, shut up and get on with things. Is it possible that the IFA would face a significant political and social backlash as a result of the pursuit of what NB has described? You'd have to think so.

[DannyInvincible]

But is it not a shared Nationality, in practice?

Neither in theory nor in practice. They are allocated independently of one another by two separate, distinct and sovereign bodies of nationality law. One is not dependent on the other and one need not necessarily be held simultaneously with the other. A NI-born dual British and Irish citizen can renounce his British citizenship but that has no bearing on his Irish citizenship, for example.

Why should Republic of Ireland Nationals be treated any differently to anyone else?

In what sense do you mean? Every nationality is treated as distinct by FIFA in that respective nationalities confer eligibility for the various member associations.

[The Fly]

Is it possible that the IFA would face a significant political and social backlash as a result of the pursuit of what NB has described? You'd have to think so.

I sincerely doubt that.

By subsequently returning to the Northern Ireland FA fold after failing to make the grade, is the player not "dishonest" to himself? Should the player not continue to endeavour for the rest of his playing career to make the Ireland team, rather than falling back on the Northern Ireland FA who are not true to his beliefs?

In an ideal world the answer would be Yes, but back in the real world the answer is No.

But I take it you already knew that.

[DannyInvincible]

It doesn't matter if the player is dishonest as long as he's committed to playing for the IFA and no one else. The dishonesty and integrity gambit is therefore a bit inconsistent.

He can't be too honest either, like Alex Bruce was.

[Predator]

I sincerely doubt that.

You doubt the possibility or you doubt that there will be political/social backlash against the IFA? I think it's possible.