Eligibility Rules, Okay

**DannyInvincible** · 26/04/2012, 8:55 AM

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy!

**DannyInvincible** · 26/04/2012, 9:01 AM

Out of interest, who are the two eligible Rovers players he wanted to look at? I presume Chris Turner was one. Was Conor McCormack the other? I've a feeling he was born in Newry and think I recall someone on OWC mentioning him before. He's played for us at under-15, under-16, under-17 and under-19 levels, by the way.

Edit: Of course, to be eligible to play for the IFA, McCormack would need to be a British citizen. I'm not sure McCormack is a British citizen by virtue of his birth alone, assuming it was in Newry and that he and his family were settled in Carlingford in Louth, rather than north of the border, at his time of birth. Unless he has a northern parent(s) or grandparent(s)...

Same with Shay Given, for example, even if he had been born in Derry, like some try to claim; his family were never settled in the UK so my understanding is that he wouldn't have been a British citizen nor would he have been eligible to play for the IFA by virtue of his place of birth alone. As it happens, his mother was from Castlederg in Tyrone anyway.

**ArdeeBhoy** · 27/04/2012, 7:50 PM

You'll get NB on saying he's never revoked his British citizenship...

McCormack that is.

**DannyInvincible** · 28/04/2012, 11:37 AM

I don't think British citizenship would have been conferred upon him though, assuming neither of his parents were British citizens and he wasn't settled in NI.

**DannyInvincible** · 09/05/2012, 7:01 AM

Interesting one, this. I've only just come across the concepts of condominia and tridominia in international law (areas of joint sovereignty, basically), but it got me thinking about what the national/eligibility status of hypothetical players born in such areas would be. Most of these areas appear to be bodies of territorial water, although some are land-based. Besides, humans need not be born on land at all times. Would more than one body of nationality law apply over these areas then, similar to how two bodies of nationality law apply over NI? Or perhaps the states concerned employ a parental clause like that introduced into Irish nationality law in 2004. Don't really expect any solid answers but just thought I'd throw that out there.

By the way, on Conor McCormack, he confirmed via Twitter that his mother and her family were born and bred north of the border, so he's definitely eligible for NI.

**gastric** · 09/05/2012, 9:10 AM

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Interesting one, this. I've only just come across the concepts of condominia and tridominia in international law (areas of joint sovereignty, basically), but it got me thinking about what the national/eligibility status of hypothetical players born in such areas would be. Most of these areas appear to be bodies of territorial water, although some are land-based. Besides, humans need not be born on land at all times. Would more than one body of nationality law apply over these areas then, similar to how two bodies of nationality law apply over NI? Or perhaps the states concerned employ a parental clause like that introduced into Irish nationality law in 2004. Don't really expect any solid answers but just thought I'd throw that out there.

By the way, on Conor McCormack, he confirmed via Twitter that his mother and her family were born and bred north of the border, so he's definitely eligible for NI.

You are on a different planet Danny!

**Stuttgart88** · 09/05/2012, 10:01 AM

Don't introduce extra-terrestriality into this. Extra-territoriality is bad enough.

**BonnieShels** · 09/05/2012, 10:22 AM

The lads over on OWC were the ones who brought extra-terrestriality and space-cadetism into it..

**paul_oshea** · 09/05/2012, 12:19 PM

McClean was the subject of abuse earlier this season when he announced his decision, which is allowed under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/inter...itter-account/

Do you think its just lazines on all involved to just bundle into the one thing and not go any further - certainly the use of legal technical wording such as " which is allowed " would suggest so.

**DannyInvincible** · 09/05/2012, 2:14 PM

I dunno. A mixture of laziness and ignorance is my guess. I think a very significant number of people still actually believe FIFA made some novel decision around the mid-2000s to "eligibilise" Gibson (and therefore all northern-born players by extension) based on the provisions in the GFA and its endorsement of the right of those born north of the border to identify and be accepted as Irish. The way it's relayed in the media would nearly make you think the GFA gave express mention to the rights of northern-born footballers with hopes of playing for the FAI.

**paul_oshea** · 09/05/2012, 2:19 PM

I think if you abstract it slightly further, that people don't believe it has anything to do with FIFA statutes and bye-laws, but actually National Identity - for want of a better term -, as though FIFA policies are sub-governed by the GFA(or whatever other jurisdictions law covers).

Either way no one seems willing or wants to properly explore the issue within the context of the pieces being written.

**paul_oshea** · 09/05/2012, 2:23 PM

Actually, what do people think was written into the GFA that allows this?

We seceded consitutional claim over the territory of the whole Island of Ireland, we always recognised anyone born in the Island as an Irish citizen and therefore entitled to an Irish Passport, so what do they think was written into the GFA?

(pps) extremely small writing(at the very bottom of the GFA, by martin mcguiness thinking of all the potential recruits to the Republic football team) - for any footballs born in NI wishing to represent the Irish Republic we hereby grant that wish
signed:
xxxxx

**SwanVsDalton** · 09/05/2012, 2:32 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Actually, what do people think was written into the GFA that allows this?

We seceded consitutional claim over the territory of the whole Island of Ireland, we always recognised anyone born in the Island as an Irish citizen and therefore entitled to an Irish Passport, so what do they think was written into the GFA?

(pps) extremely small writing(at the very bottom of the GFA, by martin mcguiness thinking of all the potential recruits to the Republic football team) - for any footballs born in NI wishing to represent the Irish Republic we hereby grant that wish
signed:
xxxxx

And there was the Irish government, chucking out passports to Billy Nordie for decades before the GFA - serious egg on their faces over that one...

**Stuttgart88** · 09/05/2012, 2:35 PM

Tim Nordie, surely?

**paul_oshea** · 09/05/2012, 2:40 PM

Very good stutts, but i used to work with a Tim, who was definitely a billy nordie.

Maybe, Tadgh Nordie. I never pointed this one out to him.

**DannyInvincible** · 09/05/2012, 2:52 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

We seceded consitutional claim over the territory of the whole Island of Ireland, we always recognised anyone born in the Island as an Irish citizen and therefore entitled to an Irish Passport, so what do they think was written into the GFA?

Aye, I'm guessing it's the section recognising "the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose" along with "their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship" that people assume has some sort of bearing over what they must think are the vague rules that govern football eligibility.

People assume two things:

That only since the GFA has the entitlement to Irish citizenship been available to those born north of the border. My Tyrone-born father (with Tyrone-born parents) has been an Irish national from birth and had an Irish passport a very long time before the GFA was ever imagined. With regard to this area, the GFA primarily endorsed a previously-contentious right that was already there under Irish law and settled what was a matter of diplomatic dispute with the UK via bilateral agreement.
That FIFA eligibility to play for a representative team is dictated by mere possession of a passport of the country that team represents. Of course, as we all know, it's not as straightforward as that; eligibility is governed by articles 5 to 8 of the Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes.