Eligibility Rules, Okay

[DannyInvincible]

From that article on McClean's transfer request by a random person with random knowledge picked up from God knows where,
'When the Players’ Status Committee and the Dispute Resolution Chamber decide on his request he will be unable to play for the north again, even if Giovanni Trapattoni never picks him.'

This is repetition of the false/unproven assumption that FIFA granting a transfer request by a player to change from one association to another, effects the change from which there is no return.

Ó Raghallaigh claims to have received confirmation that this is the case from the FAI.

[geysir]

Ó Raghallaigh claims to have received confirmation that this is the case from the FAI.

Well I would accept a confirmation from FIFA. I would also accept one example of a player whose transfer to another association was approved by FIFA but the player was refused permission to revert after being uncapped by his new asssociation.

On Bobby Zamora, FIFA news report Aug11 2010
Previously capped at u21 level for England, applied to transfer to T&T,-and was approved by FIFA.
Zamora keen to grab England chance

T&T opportunity
Zamora had the opportunity to represent Trinidad & Tobago, via his father, and even went as far as obtaining the relevant documentation ahead of the FIFA World Cup qualifiers. However, fate again dealt the striker a tough hand. "If things had worked out differently I could have played for them, but I had pretty much the same injuries - Achilles and back - which ruled me out,"

Seeing as Zamora was selected 3 times for T&T and if we assume ´obtaining the relevant documentation´ means he obtained permission from FIFA, I have to seriously doubt the FAI source. He was capped by England a few times after not availing of the opportunity to play for T&T.

[geysir]

On a related item, the Wigan player Victor Moses, capped many times for England under age, applied to FIFA and was approved to declare for Nigeria in Nov 2011. A month later he failed to turn up for 2 friendly games for Nigeria in December 2011.
There are reports that he is contemplating a hope for an England call. it is also reported that he believes he can still play for England.
Seeing as Nigeria did not qualify for the African cup of nations it appears he is not pushed right now.
'At the moment, I can still play for England because I've not played for Nigeria, so like I say, we will have to wait and see.'
It will be interesting to see what develops with Victor's international career.

[ArdeeBhoy]

The thing is that could apply to dozens of players from England. And various other leagues and countries where's there's a lot of people with dual nationality plus the added 'incentive' of residency which is likely to be a bigger factor in future years.

[Not Brazil]

plus the added 'incentive' of residency which is likely to be a bigger factor in future years.

What do you mean AB?

What, exactly, is the "incentive" of residency, and why will it be a bigger factor in future years?

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's as it says...

Not rocket science.

[ifk101]

On a related item, the Wigan player Victor Moses, capped many times for England under age, applied to FIFA and was approved to declare for Nigeria in Nov 2011. A month later he failed to turn up for 2 friendly games for Nigeria in December 2011.
There are reports that he is contemplating a hope for an England call. it is also reported that he believes he can still play for England.
Seeing as Nigeria did not qualify for the African cup of nations it appears he is not pushed right now.
'At the moment, I can still play for England because I've not played for Nigeria, so like I say, we will have to wait and see.'
It will be interesting to see what develops with Victor's international career.

The player in question states as follows;
'I got a call-up,' he said, 'but something happened with the paperwork.
'Nigeria haven't qualified for the African Cup of Nations, so...we'll have to wait and see.
'At the moment, I can still play for England because I've not played for Nigeria, so like I say, we will have to wait and see.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...nal-debut.html

[DannyInvincible]

On Bobby Zamora, FIFA news report Aug11 2010
Previously capped at u21 level for England, applied to transfer to T&T,-and was approved by FIFA.
Zamora keen to grab England chance

Whether or not any of Zamora's England under-21 caps were competitive would provide us with clarification. Moses definitely played in more than one competitive fixture at under-age level for England, so he's an interesting one; one to keep an eye on. Ó Raghallaigh reckons Moses has the rules wrong.

Just reading into the text of article 8:

If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if a Player is eligible to play for several representative teams due to nationality, he may, only once, request to change the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches to the Association of another country of which he holds nationality...

It does specify that a player may only once request a change, rather than once effect or complete a change. Should we read into that?

[BonnieShels]

I would say no.
How it has been treated up to now would indicate as such.
In essence the player is always the one who requests the change so even treating it literally would give you such a definition.

I appreciate that if someone was to try and extract a meaning that is contrary to what we all readily accept is the meaning and intention of the article as it so appears, they would find themselves on very shakey ground as it would then open the possibility that a 3rd party, eg. a football association, could request changes on behalf of a player.

[ifk101]

Whether or not any of Zamora's England under-21 caps were competitive would provide us with clarification.

He has played competitively at under 21 level for England, 2002 U21 European Championships.

However we're then assuming that a quote of "obtaining the relevant documentation" in reference to Zamora by a random person with random knowledge picked up from God knows where (the article linked to FIFA is not sourced), provides us with clarification.

[Closed Account]

I looked into Zamora U21 Caps last night.
He did play in an U21 Finals match so it he did play in an official competition.
http://en.archive.uefa.com/competiti...report=ev.html

I'm coming to either of the following conclusions:
1. When Zamora says he got the 'required paperwork', all he did was get a Trinidadian passport, but no way of knowing this.
or
2. The rules regarding 'change of association' changed in 2008 when they scrapped the U21 age limit, meaning simply requesting a change of association tied you to a nation, rather than having to actually play a game.

There is a small bit of text at the end of a wiki article which might have some effect too, but I can't find it mentioned anywhere but in the wiki article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_eligibility_rules

There are no restrictions on players that wish to switch national associations at youth level. Alex Zahavi has represented the Israel under-21s, the United States under-20s, the Portugal under-19s, the Portugal under-18s and the Portugal under-17s.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Now that's what I call 'hedging yer bets'...

[gastric]

Article here on Carl Magnay who was supposedly going to join us after a brief stint with NI. Chelsea have let him go, but I don't know if this is because of his ability or the very bad injury he picked up about a year ago.http://www.weaintgotnohistory.com/20...ll-carl-magnay

[geysir]

The player in question states as follows;
'I got a call-up,' he said, 'but something happened with the paperwork.
'Nigeria haven't qualified for the African Cup of Nations, so...we'll have to wait and see.
'At the moment, I can still play for England because I've not played for Nigeria, so like I say, we will have to wait and see.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...nal-debut.html

Nothing happened with the paperwork according to FIFA and Nigeria. It appears the player got cold feet and didn't answer the squad call to join up with Nigeria.
Anyway Moses' experience doesn't prove anything, it's just another story in progress.

[geysir]

He has played competitively at under 21 level for England, 2002 U21 European Championships.

However we're then assuming that a quote of "obtaining the relevant documentation" in reference to Zamora by a random person with random knowledge picked up from God knows where (the article linked to FIFA is not sourced), provides us with clarification.

I am assuming that because everything points to that he obtained the relevant permission from FIFA.
By everything, I refer to every reported item on Zamora, from the player himself, the T&T association and every news report, including one on the FIFA site.
T&T had been trying for years to get Zamora (but he was over 21) and only selected him after the rule change on age limit and when they claim they finally got the go ahead from FIFA.
To obtain the relevant permission from FIFA, I also have to assume that Zamora had to follow the same procedure as other players in a similar situation eg. Clark and McClean.
As I wrote in first pages of this thread, everything points to that a player can revert after permission has been given to change.
That, IMO, has to be the default interpretation until FIFA say otherwise or there is one case example.
That interpretation as it stands now, according to all known evidence, is that a player has to be capped by his new association to effect the change, using up his one choice to change associations.

[ifk101]

Nothing happened with the paperwork according to FIFA and Nigeria. It appears the player got cold feet and didn't answer the squad call to join up with Nigeria.
Anyway Moses' experience doesn't prove anything, it's just another story in progress.

In your previous post;

(Moses) applied to FIFA and was approved to declare for Nigeria in Nov 2011.

What's the source?

[ifk101]

I am assuming that because everything points to that he obtained the relevant permission from FIFA.
By everything, I refer to every reported item on Zamora, from the player himself, the T&T association and every news report, including one on the FIFA site.

Yes you are assuming and you haven't provided conclusive evidence to support your assumption. In the case of Daniel Kearns, a specific process of events and procedures is detailed with dates. If you can find similar conclusive and specific primary sourced information with regards to Zamora, I'll entertain your assumption on the matter.

[geysir]

I looked into Zamora U21 Caps last night.
He did play in an U21 Finals match so it he did play in an official competition.
http://en.archive.uefa.com/competiti...report=ev.html

I'm coming to either of the following conclusions:
1. When Zamora says he got the 'required paperwork', all he did was get a Trinidadian passport, but no way of knowing this.
or
2. The rules regarding 'change of association' changed in 2008 when they scrapped the U21 age limit, meaning simply requesting a change of association tied you to a nation, rather than having to actually play a game.

1.The T&T association would also have to be in on the ' Zamora conspiracy of eligibility' because FIFA would be required inform them also. An association would face a stiff sanction for fielding a player who was not eligible.
2. Afaics, the only difference in the rule change is the removal of the age limit, the rest of the text reads the same.


A player can only request a change once,

That reads clear as if the player can only ask once to change.
Well, what happens if the request is rejected because he wasn't eligible enough and the player has a third valid option?
I understand how it reads but also it does not make sense.

[geysir]

What's the source?

The "Single Judge"? - God?

Fifa clear Wigan's Victor Moses to play for Nigeria

God on earth, the BBC?
Fifa clear Moses to play for Nigeria

[geysir]

Yes you are assuming and you haven't provided conclusive evidence to support your assumption. In the case of Daniel Kearns, a specific process of events and procedures is detailed with dates. If you can find similar conclusive and specific primary sourced information with regards to Zamora, I'll entertain your assumption on the matter.

The case of Daniel Kearns is well documented because of the CAS case. There is nothing to indicate that Zamora could follow a different FIFA track of application to change of association. There is nothing to indicate that Kearns could not revert in the event of him not being capped by the FAI.
The onus is on you to find out the difference between Zamora and Kearns, I can't find any.
My assumptions are made on all known evidence, you are making an assumption based on an assumption that there could be some hidden unrevealed reason why Zamora did not or could not play for T&T and therefore could play for England at a later stage.
Until FIFA state otherwise or you can find ONE case example, the onus is on you to find a rational reasons, considering that there is absolutely zilch about any glitch on Zamora's eligibility to play for T&T, endorsed by FIFA.
As I wrote in the first pages of this thread, I will keep an open mind and be prepared to change my opinion should one teeny weeny piece of concrete evidence appears.