Eligibility Rules, Okay

[DannyInvincible]

Deary me. Gary McAllister has blocked me from following him on Twitter. I can still view his tweets and contact him, mind. He'd have to make his profile private otherwise. Maybe he doesn't realise...

Anyway, the point I've posed to him is as follows. He claims to accept the right of Irish nationals to declare for the FAI, but just so long as they haven't had any dealings with the IFA prior to this. Obviously, I also accept/welcome this right. However, he consequently accuses me of seeking to undermine the cross-community nature of IFA teams and of disregarding community relations because of this. Admittedly, one of the fundamental differences in our stances is that I'm tolerant, as per FIFA's rules, of a player switching association even if he has already played for the IFA.* This causes Gary's visage to go red with fury and, on occasion, even steam has been witnessed emanating from his ears.

Whether a player declares for the FAI from the outset or switches after having played for the IFA, however, makes no difference here in principle and should have no varying bearing on community relations that I can see, or am I overlooking something? Of course it doesn't disregard the spirit of tolerance, acceptance, recognition and choice that is fundamental to community relations anyway, but, for the sake of argument, if a player switches from the IFA to FAI after having lined out for the IFA and this apparently undermines community relations, then why would the impact upon community relations be any different in the case of the same player having initially rejected any advance from the IFA and instead declared for the FAI from the outset? Ultimately, he's still opted to play for the FAI and not the IFA.

In essence, McAllister is being a hypocrite and his logic is shown to be faulty. His postured pleas for somebody to please think of the community relations(!) are shown up to be a sham; a veneer to conceal the fact his real interest is to boss individuals who don't happen to conform to his world view about.

*Although, I wouldn't object in principle if FIFA re-introduced an age cap by which a player had to switch or if they removed the right to switch once altogether, just so long as the original choice remained.

[The Fly]

Deary me. Gary McAllister has blocked me from following him on Twitter. I can still view his tweets and contact him, mind. He'd have to make his profile private otherwise. Maybe he doesn't realise...

You're on a slippery slope Danny.

However, he consequently accuses me of seeking to undermine the cross-community nature of IFA teams and of disregarding community relations because of this.

The only thing that undermines the supposed cross-community nature of the NI side (which I always found to be perhaps the quaintest notion ever proffered on OWC) is the IFA and the majority of NI fans who insist on aligning the team with the symbols of one community only.

Whether a player declares for the FAI from the outset or switches after having played for the IFA, however, makes no difference here in principle and should have no varying bearing on community relations that I can see, or am I overlooking something?

The claim that this issue has a bearing on community relations is fanciful indeed, if not just plain absurd. However, where my own view on the matter used to be that players from NI who wish to represent ROI in international football should do so at the earliest possible opportunity, I now believe they should make it their first port of call.

In the current climate I feel that this is the most equitable and ethical solution, and would alleviate some of the 'unease' surrounding the issue. The latter point is of secondary significance however, as any sympathy I had for the NI position ran out some time ago.

[ArdeeBhoy]

The trouble is Danny, you're being reasonable. And if one might draw the iceberg analogy again, he's an eejit.
And given his, er, 'role', almost certainly always will be.

One can only guess he won't be joining with his brethren in a certain impending referendum?

Just be grateful though it's not our 'friend', the illustrious, er, 'moderator', from west of Doire, allegedly.

[The Bunk]

And where are they at the moment? Ealing Green has stopped writing his essays

Yeah what happened to him?

[The Fly]

And where are they at the moment? Ealing Green has stopped writing his essays

Yeah what happened to him?

[gastric]

Joined a Catholic monastic order called Brothers of the Disillusioned.

[geysir]

Although, I wouldn't object in principle if FIFA re-introduced an age cap by which a player had to switch .

Personally I disagree and I would object in principle if FIFA re-introduced the age restriction. I don't see what age has to do with it.
IMO, a senior competitive cap is a definitive act of binding and demonstrates the association are treating the player seriously.
Why should age (>21) prevent an uncapped senior player from choosing the association of his 2nd nationality? Removing the age cap puts the power back with the player over such an association who were acting in their own interests, a player who never gets onto the senior squad but who had been strung along with vague promises for the benefit of the association, in case the player came good enough for them.

Removal of the age restriction by FIFA, benefits the player who is good enough to play for the other association
International football is already lopsided enough with population size & migration patterns.

I wouldn't object in principle if FIFA …...if they removed the right to switch once altogether, just so long as the original choice remained.

That's just too bizarre Danny, you have no principles You need to get back to basics - the basic tenet of eligibility and build from there.

[DannyInvincible]

You make a good point with regard to the arbitrary age cap. Just saying that if FIFA insisted its re-introduction as some sort of compromise in order to assuage any residual IFA/AoNISC gripes, I wouldn't be too fussed as they'd presumably be content with their "closure" whilst we could get on with selecting willing northern-born Irish nationals without having to listen to their accusatory moaning. Simply in the interests of extinguishing tension. In spite of that, players would still have the original choice, which is the crucial principle for me. It's not like I'll be campaigning for change any time soon though, nor do I see FIFA going back on a relatively recent change, but the IFA/AoNISC can lobby FIFA for change 'til their hearts are content.

But, as I said, you make the case as to why the current situation is preferable in principle.

[geysir]

I doubt also that FIFA would mess around with basic principles in its statutes just to appease some Irish problem. How they would approach would be same as what they have done in the past, invited both associations to work out an internal agreement, which would have been added to the statutes as an annex.

Just saying that if FIFA insisted its re-introduction as some sort of compromise in order to assuage any residual IFA/AoNISC gripes, I wouldn't be too fussed as they'd presumably be content with their "closure" whilst we could get on with selecting willing northern-born Irish nationals without having to listen to their accusatory moaning. Simply in the interests of extinguishing tension.

I don't mind the bluster of the owc. As you have found with Gary Mc, refusing to engage in a rational debate by just closing the ears followed by raising the voice louder and louder, are just the usual political hissy fit tactics of loyalists to get their way. Give ice cream to the screaming kid, just so you can have some peace of mind? Imo, that debate has first to be settled inside the 6 counties, you can't just slither away because you want some peace of mind.
Young footballers have their fundamental rights as well to chose between the FAI/ IFA, without the blackmail to affect that choice - 'if you don't choose us now, you will forever be cast out'.

[Predator]

Joe Brolly contributes his thoughts to Michael O'Neill's rhetoric: http://www.derryjournal.com/sport/br...oint_1_3439417

Michael has been publicly trying to recruit Northern Irish Catholics who have previously rejected the notion of playing for the ‘North.’ The fundamental problem he has is that this would require them to renounce their sense of identity. Everton’s Shane Duffy, for example, was brought up in Derry City and played Gaelic football for Doire Colmcille. He is an Irishman, not a Northerner. Which is why he has repeatedly stated he will never play for Northern Ireland.

The reality is that the two cultures remain firmly segregated.

Nigel Worthington, during his tenure as Northern Ireland manager, described the notion of a citizen from the ‘north’ declaring for the ‘south’ as ‘ludicrous’ and ‘a loophole.’

Graham Luney, an influential journalist who writes for the largely protestant Belfast Telegraph wrote: ‘We cannot afford to carry passengers who are dreaming of wearing the colours of another national team. Let players chase other countries if they want to.’

His newspaper routinely refers to the ‘Londonderry-born McClean’ and the ‘Londonderry-born Duffy!’

Michael O’Neill’s crusade is futile. Some follow the green, white and gold. Some the red, white and blue.

It is far more than a flag.

[The Fly]

You'd think that he'd know the colours of his own national flag.

[Charlie Darwin]

I assume it's in reference to the song. And kind of fitting since the subject of the article concerns the continued division of green from orange in Ireland.

[DannyInvincible]

Until the new Millennium, you could buy the CD in the Windsor Park shop.

Is this true?

[The Fly]

Until the new Millennium, you can buy the CD in the Windsor Park shop.

Fixed.

[DannyInvincible]

'IFA deny stalling McClean's switch to Republic': http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sp...-16105904.html

[BonnieShels]

IFA president Jim Shaw said: “The whole process is a lengthy one as we discovered in the Lee Camp situation. It’s very time consuming and there’s no question of us deliberately holding things up.

“I would agree that it can be done a lot quicker, the whole process can be speeded up. But it can take up to 10 months.”


It took Fifa around that length of time to process the papers for the transfer of former West Ham player Daniel Kearns from Northern Ireland to the Republic.


The FAI felt that the IFA didn’t immediately sign their side of the form.






Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sp...#ixzz1k2chzPuS

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

I don't know what it is but something tells me that this wasn't ALL FIFA's fault.

[Predator]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

I don't know what it is but something tells me that this wasn't ALL FIFA's fault.

Of course, the article neglects to mention the impact that the IFA's decision to take Kearns to Switzerland had on the process. No player's switch was processed during that period. Shane Duffy, for example, was soon cleared after the decision and was called up to the Under 19s in the September of 2010.

[ArdeeBhoy]

"Michael O’Neill’s crusade is futile. Some follow the green, white and gold. Some the red, white and blue."

'Freudian' slip, surely...

Probably brought to you by the same people who call the North, 'Ulster'?

[DannyInvincible]

Interesting piece on the issue of non-Jewish players representing Israel from the January 2012 edition of 'When Saturday Comes' (originally posted by 'EalingGreen' on OWC):

[The Fly]

Interesting piece on the issue of non-Jewish players representing Israel from the January 2012 edition of 'When Saturday Comes' (originally posted by 'EalingGreen' on OWC):

He's ALIVE!!!