Eligibility Rules, Okay

[Not Brazil]

Still wrong and no raw nerve touched, but if you want to carry on looking ignorant about a sizable minority of your local electorate, more fool you.

We clearly have a differing opinion on this.

You seem to believe that (P)SF and PIRA do not form the Provisional Movement.

I do believe they form the Provisional Movement.

We'll have to agree to differ.

[Not Brazil]

[QUOTE=ArdeeBhoy;1522316 it goes against the ethos of FIFA's rules and the CAS.

But some people are being more like an, er, ostrich about this...[/QUOTE]

I don't see anything in the FIFA Statutes or the CAS Ruling pertaining to which eligible players a member Association has to select to represent them.

I certainly haven't seen anything from FIFA or CAS stating that an Association must pick players who harbour ambitions of playing for another Association's senior representative side in the future.

As far as I'm aware, team selection is at the discretion of the member Association.

[Predator]

There's no hypocrisy in this.

NB doesn't players in the underage set-up who don't plan on ever appearing for the senior side (if wanted by the IFA) because their addition in underage squads may in some way hinder the development of a player who does dream of representing NI at senior level. The issue of them representing NI at senior level has nothing to do with footballing ability and everything to do with their nationality (or the preferred of their nationalities).

Accepting an English-born (and trained) player into the senior squad ahead of a NI-born player (who may have dreamed of representing NI in a way that English-born player never has) has everything to do with footballing ability and nothing to do with nationality.

The two are not comparable.

NB has clearly stated what he wants, that is, he wants to "weed out" those who are allegedly denying a place to someone whose dream it is to represent NI (a notion which can only truly be established if a player actually effects a switch). That should, for the sake of consistency, include those English opportunists who are playing for NI because they're not good enough for England and not just those NI born kids of an Irish nationalist persuasion who may have grown up supporting Ireland. It's hypocritical to want to "weed out" dream-snatchers (be they James McClean, Adam Barton or Lee Camp) at underage level and not those at senior level. You are claiming that that principle somehow changes at senior level, making it inconsistent and thus hypocritical.

[Not Brazil]

NB has clearly stated what he wants, that is, he wants to "weed out" those who are allegedly denying a place to someone whose dream it is to represent NI (a notion which can only truly be established if a player actually effects a switch). That should, for the sake of consistency, include those English opportunists who are playing for NI because they're not good enough for England and not just those NI born kids of an Irish nationalist persuasion who may have grown up supporting Ireland. It's hypocritical to want to "weed out" dream-snatchers (be they James McClean, Adam Barton or Lee Camp) at underage level and not those at senior level. You are claiming that that principle somehow changes at senior level, making it inconsistent and thus hypocritical.

I'm not sure what part of my clarification you are failing to understand.

Players in our under age set up who harbour realistic ambitions of switching to another Association at senior international level should be weeded out.

Our underage teams should be geared towards players who wish to progress and represent Northern Ireland at senior international level.

I don't see anything remotely "inconsistent and thus hypocritical" in that.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's completely hypocritical for the reasons numerous posters have highlighted..

But even more so, it's wholly unrealistic.

[Not Brazil]

It's completely hypocritical for the reasons numerous posters have highlighted..

But even more so, it's wholly unrealistic.

I don't believe my viewpoint is in any way hypocritical.

I also believe it to be wholly realistic.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Except in the main, we're not talking about you.


It's the IFA.
You don't need to take it all on yourself!



They can like any FA, can make claims on eligible players, until they make their full competitive debut, regardless of age or disposition.
And they have now enlisted plenty of potential full internationals from outside the North. So what.
What's the problem?

Are you saying they shouldn't...

[Not Brazil]

They can like any FA, can make claims on eligible players, until they make their full competitive debut, regardless of age or disposition.
And they have now enlisted plenty of potential full internationals from outside the North. So what.
What's the problem?

Are you saying they shouldn't...

Any eligible player who wants to commit their future to our senior international side is more than welcome.

Any player currently in our underage ranks who, in future, has ambitions to play for the South's (or any other Association's) senior international side needs weeded out.

Are you a bit slow today - heavy weekend perhaps?

[ifk101]

Any eligible player who wants to commit their future to our senior international side is more than welcome.

Alex Bruce.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Are you a bit slow today - heavy weekend perhaps?

Except it's your goofy statements about players who're eligible for other teams and the political stance of the Northern electorate.
Wondering if you are determined on looking silly. But do keep on digging...

[Not Brazil]

Alex Bruce.

The problem with mercenary Bruce is that he refused a callup previously, making patronising/disparaging comments in the process...and when he found out he wasn't good enough for the South, he thought we'd all forget.

Perhaps someone has had a word in Nigel's ear - no Bruce in our squad for the forthcoming games v Serbia and Estonia.

So, any eligible player who wants to commit their future to our senior international side is more than welcome (provided they didn't turn their nose up at us earlier).

[Not Brazil]

Except it's your goofy statements about players who're eligible for other teams and the political stance of the Northern electorate.

I don't consider I have made any "goofy comments" about "players who're eligible for other teams and the political stance of the Northern electorate".

It is, of course, your perogative to consider my comments "goofy".

That will not concern me in the least.

[DannyInvincible]

Our underage teams should be geared towards players who wish to progress and represent Northern Ireland at senior international level.

What if such a player's dream is never realised because of some English-born Johnny-come-lately taking the place he would have occupied, thereby also hampering his development?

[ifk101]

The problem with mercenary Bruce is that he refused a callup previously, making patronising/disparaging comments in the process...and when he found out he wasn't good enough for the South, he thought we'd all forget.

Alex Bruce. "I'm very flattered that Northern Ireland and the Republic are both showing an interest in me. But I think I'm going to pick the Republic purely because I think they are a better team.”

Patronising/ disparaging comments?

Perhaps someone has had a word in Nigel's ear - no Bruce in our squad for the forthcoming games v Serbia and Estonia.

Think again.

So, any eligible player who wants to commit their future to our senior international side is more than welcome (provided they didn't turn their nose up at us earlier).

...... and provided they don't keep you waiting for an answer.

[Not Brazil]

What if such a player's dream is never realised because of some English-born Johnny-come-lately taking the place he would have occupied, thereby also hampering his development?

Our senior squad being bettered by players wishing to commit to playing senior international football for Northern Ireland - eg, Lee Camp - is fine by me - provided they haven't previously snubbed us previously.

If an "English-born-Johnny-come-lately" was in our underage ranks, and had realistic ambitions of playing senior international football with another Association, I'd want him weeded out.

You never know - maybe some of your Northern Ireland born young starlets will have their dreams shattered, regarding playing senior international football for the South, by "English-born-Johnny-come-lately"s.

How do you feel about that?

[DannyInvincible]

I have libeled nobody.

I consider PSF & PIRA to be part of the same movement ie. the Provisional Movement.

That wasn't the issue, as you know. Yes, Sinn Féin are part of the provisional movement, but we were debating whether or not it was acceptable or appropriate to refer to McClean as a "provo" because of his stated support for Sinn Féin on his Facebook. You seem to think it's fine. I don't. I happen to feel that the intent to insult or offend behind what was a slur in the context was crucial. In the context, the derisive connotation was to insinuate that McClean was probably sectarian and of questionable moral fibre; it may as well have been an abbreviated form of "provo b*stard" such was the tone. It was intended as a smear or personal attack on the lad in an environment where such crap, if not lapped up by a sorry few, wouldn't cause much of a stir, pure and simple.

[Not Brazil]

Alex Bruce. "I'm very flattered that Northern Ireland and the Republic are both showing an interest in me. But I think I'm going to pick the Republic purely because I think they are a better team.”

Patronising/ disparaging comments?

"It was pleasing that I was wanted by national teams and Ive always had allegiances to the Republic because of the way I was brought up, so I supported them as well. When the chance came to play for the Republic, there was no decision really"

Funny how there's a decision now Alex, ain't it?

No thanks.

He wasn't in the squad named this morning.

[DannyInvincible]

Our senior squad being bettered by players wishing to commit to playing senior international football for Northern Ireland - eg, Lee Camp - is fine by me - provided they haven't previously snubbed us previously.

But why do the other poor deprived souls who've had their dreams so cruelly crushed by mercenaries no longer matter to you at this point?

You never know - maybe some of your Northern Ireland born young starlets will have their dreams shattered, regarding playing senior international football for the South, by "English-born-Johnny-come-lately"s.

How do you feel about that?

No problem with it whatsoever. Our diaspora is a fundamental and defining aspect of our national identity too. If another Irishman is a better footballer and more worthy of a place in our team than any other, fair enough. That's always been the way.

[Not Brazil]

That wasn't the issue, as you know. Yes, Sinn Féin are part of the provisional movement, but we were debating whether or not it was acceptable or appropriate to refer to McClean as a "provo" because of his stated support for Sinn Féin on his Facebook. You seem to think it's fine. I don't..

It's of little concern to me whether you find it "acceptable" or not.

I clarified my comments in detail.

I make no apology for them.

McClean is not "a Provo", on the basis that I don't believe him to be a member of the Provisional Movement.

He is, clearly, a Provo supporter, in that he expresses support for the Provisional Movement.

I'm happy to reword to "Provisional Movement supporter" - I told you that yesterday.

I suggest you google "Provisional Movement".

I don't know if McClean is sectarian or not- I do not claim that he is sectarian.

Nor do I consider all supporters of the Provisional Movement to be "*******s".

[ArdeeBhoy]

Keep on digging...