Hmm, I'm signed in automatically any time I return to the site. My post appears only to me in the position you'd expect it to had it been accepted and looks like any of the other posts except for a qualifying header that reads, "Your comment is awaiting moderation." Obviously, it remains hidden from other users.Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
I'll send an e-mail and light a candle.
Perhaps they think you're a 'double agent'??
And be careful what you wish for;He's just been given a free transfer by St.Johnstone!I suppose I could always pretend I actually am this chap:
The most recent post I see on that Slugger blog is from ayeYerMa, who interprets laws with the vigour of an Apartheid loving Afrikaner, who thinks you Nordie nationalist upstarts should be kept on the plantation and at the back of the bus.
Has he a point?
No...
I'm glad to see that we're taking up our keyboards against the ignorant onslaught from the punks within OWC.
End Apartheid Now! One Team in Ireland!
Last edited by SwanVsDalton; 03/06/2011 at 1:29 PM. Reason: ah hell with it, I'm bored at work...
Ou-est le Centre George Pompidou?
I (seriously) once witnessed someone getting smacked over the head with an old keyboard. They're a surprisingly effective weapon!
Last edited by Sullivinho; 03/06/2011 at 1:38 PM. Reason: spelling
Come out to play with the Foot.ie Furies.
Kelly in the Indo today, more muck from Kelly.
I have quoted the parts of the article that are relevant to the eligibility issue. Actually there are no parts of his article relevant to the eligibility issue.
'And, yet, are Qatar's badge-kissing Brazilians any different from those pedestrian footballers to whom the FAI raise their hemline every time they unearth a green granny in their attic'?
'The 2009 rule change allowing players to transfer national allegiances, which unearthed a whole series of bizarre and incongruous international cross-border transfers -- mmm, a bit like club football don't'cha think? -- had ramifications for Ireland, too.'
'Of course, we have Sepp Blatter to thank for all of this, too, thanks to that rule change, which allowed a flood of players to switch allegiances with all the convenience of arranging a six-month loan between Preston North End and Kidderminster.
Can we really maintain stoic loyalty to an international game that could tolerate a midfield of Brazilians playing for Iraq, a back-four of Filipinos playing for Burkina Faso or a brace of Welsh strikers leading the line for the Cook Islands?'
'Qatar's badge-kissing Brazilians??'
FIFA changed the rules to prevent that, you fckwit.
'2009 rule change allowing players to transfer national allegiances?'
Has Kelly even read that rule?
'that could tolerate a midfield of Brazilians playing for Iraq'
Answer to above question is, Kelly has not even read the rule.
But, yes a Brazilian can play for Iraq, after at least 5 years residency in Iraq.
I've been reading back through the thread as I'm writing what will be a fairly long piece about player eligibility that should hopefully clear a few things up and dispel the myths and ignorance that, unfortunately, still seem so commonplace. However, something not wholly relevant to what I'm writing, as I'm not going to get into Alex Bruce or Adam Barton territory, being not wholly certain under which specific article they actually qualify, crossed my mind as I read about the transfer of Irish citizenship from one generation to the next in post #17 by osarusan.
Say, an English-born individual holds Irish nationality that has been passed down via this method of registration mentioned above from Irish-born great-grandparent who had settled in England, to English-born grandparent, to English-born parent, to said English-born individual; presumably, they can't qualify to play for us under article 17, but could they qualify to play for us under article 15, or would they even qualify to play for us at all despite legally being an Irish national?If you are entitled to register, your Irish citizenship is effective from the date of registration. The Irish citizenship of successive generations may be maintained in this way by each generation ensuring their registration in the Foreign Births Register before the birth of the next generation.
Since 1 July 1986, a person registered in the Foreign Births Entry Book after 1986 is deemed to be an Irish citizen only from the date of his/her entry in the Register and not from the date of birth. This means that children born to that person before his/her date of entry in the Register are not entitled to citizenship.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 04/06/2011 at 11:24 AM.
Danny: would you be interested in writing a guest post for GreenScene on eligibility? (Or just post there what you're putting up here)
What I was contemplating doing was writing a piece which, at the minute, I have titled provisionally as 'FIFA Player Eligibility in the Context of Ireland: The Actual Rules, the Real Facts and Dispelling the Prevailing Myths', then maybe posting it up here so others could offer advice or suggestions on including some things I might have missed out on or tweaking certain points to ensure the best arguments are put across as possible. So far, I've actually written and compiled an astonishing 12 pages-worth of information on Microsoft Word and can see me writing a few more if I'm to cover everything I feel is worth including. Anyway, I wasn't sure what to do with it once it's completed but I'd be more than happy to let people publish it around the various blogs and fan-sites. It'll just be insanely long is my only fear. Maybe I should write a twin metro addition, ha. I suppose seeing something of it in the mainstream media would be the ultimate aim, especially in the north. I know I'll be sending it off to the Belfast Telegraph anyway.
Edit: By the way, if anyone can think of a better title, fire away. That one's just a semi-reference to this abysmal effort.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 04/06/2011 at 11:54 AM.
Wow, sounds comprehensive. Our McCarthy Quotes article got good exposure on d'radio, so I'd imagine we could help you become the #1 Expert on Irish eligibility
Make sure to tell me before you stick it up so I can get a shave before the press come knocking on my door.
Yes, Danny, without wanting to sound sarcastic, it's time for the definitive book (Ok, pamphlet) on the matter.
Have a mate who works in publishing.....
I think such a person would be assuming an Irish nationality - therefore article 17 'Any Player who refers to art. 15 par. 1 to assume a new nationality'
That means any player who already has a permanent nationality who qualifies to play for that association, BUT then assumes another new nationality.
The question I have about that, is if the player had already assumed that 2nd nationality when in childhood, therefore they have already assumed that permanent nationality not dependent on residence. But I doubt it and thats why article 17 is not called the granny rule for nothing.
As regards writing a lengthy piece on eligibility in general. I'd say, keep it as concise and simple as possible. You have a knack of understanding the issue and you can write a very intelligent and articulate piece. But bear in mind that a lengthy piece will likely be too lengthy.
Here is a piece I wrote that I would have put into the opening post on this thread but can't edit that post any more.
Eligibility for international teams is based on 4 articles in the FIFA Statutes
Page 62 VII. ELIGIBILITY TO PLAY FOR ASSOCIATION TEAMS
The articles are numbered 15, 16, 17 and 18.
The fundamental premise for eligibility for a national team is nationality/citizenship.
The main article of eligibility is Article 15, it has remained virtually unchanged in substance since 2003.
Article 15
'Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence in a certain country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the Association of that country'
Most all born on the island of Ireland have 'permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence' and also most 2nd generation Irish, born anywhere in the world.
Irish citizenship is automatic at the time of birth to virtually all born on the island.
Irish citizenship is also automatic to a baby born to an Irish mother /father, no matter where in the world the birth happens.
Article 16.
Player is eligible to play for several Association teams due to his nationality,
This article outlines eligibity for British nationals - one British nationality but 4 associations for which a British national is eligible to play for. The conditions of eligibility outlined here apply for each of the 4 associations and are taken from the UK Associations agreement of 1993.
(a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(d) He has lived continuously on the territory of the relevant Association for at least two years.
Article 16 does not apply to Irish nationals, it only applies to British nationals.
As a birthright, a person born in NI has dual nationality (British and Irish). Article 16 applies to when the player uses his British nationality, but it does not apply when the player uses his Irish nationality.
Why? Irish nationality only entitles you play for the FAI.
British nationality entitles you to play for 4 UK associations and only a British national can play for NI.
IFA, Daniel Kearns and Article 16
The IFA believed and argued to the Court Arbitration of Sport (CAS) that NI born dual national, Danny Kearns, was
subject to the conditions of Article 16 and therefore ineligible to declare for the FAI.
CAS rejected this argument and confirmed what the rest of the world knew, that Article 16 applied only to British nationals, even if that British national had another nationality. Danny of course is an Irish national but because Irish Nationality only entitles a player to choose to play for the FAI, therefore article 16 did not apply to Danny's choice to declare for the FAI.
Last edited by geysir; 04/06/2011 at 12:34 PM.
I think I see what you mean. I always struggled to get my head around what exactly was meant by a player referring to paragraph 1 of article 15 to assume a new nationality, but I think that makes sense to me. Essentially then, they possessed an original nationality and qualified for a certain association initially by virtue of the nationality, so, in light of that, or in reference to that, they are now assuming a new nationality to play for a new association? Is that it, pretty much? Maybe I was just reading into it too much as it seemed somewhat superfluous to me. What player who is assuming a new nationality wouldn't refer to article 15?
Such an individual as the hypothetical one I mentioned with just an Irish-born great-grandparent wouldn't satisfy any of the four criteria laid out in article 17, mind, so I'm guessing they just wouldn't be eligible then.
I know you're of the belief that FIFA view NI as "territory" of the FAI due to the fact that Irish nationality law applies in that jurisdiction and because you feel FIFA precedent with regard to Alex Bruce would appear to suggest so. However, I mulled over the possibility in discussion centred around Adam Barton's eligibility a while back that the permanent criteria in article 15 might not necessarily equate to a requirement for a nationality by birthright as I feared the former approach stretched the definition of "territory" quite a bit, yet, obviously, there still had to be some route by which the likes of Bruce and Barton have qualified to play for us.
Anyhow, if it's viewed as you see it, when countering the IFA's claims during the Kearns case, could the point not simply have been made that, even if article 16 did apply to the bearers of Irish nationality, NI was the "territory" of both the IFA and FAI anyway?
Yeah, that's pretty much what I was considering as well when I was discussing Barton.The question I have about that, is if the player had already assumed that 2nd nationality when in childhood, therefore they have already assumed that permanent nationality not dependent on residence. But I doubt it and thats why article 17 is not called the granny rule for nothing.
I'll see what I can do, although I can always write a comprehensive piece and then cut it down to size with the help of you guys or something for unleashing upon the world.As regards writing a lengthy piece on eligibility in general. I'd say, keep it as concise and simple as possible. You have a knack of understanding the issue and you can write a very intelligent and articulate piece. But bear in mind that a lengthy piece will likely be too lengthy.
Interestingly, I might actually have come across large group of players who would be acquiring a "new" nationality without actually referring to article 15 originally due to statelessness.
Just looking at the Swiss squad for their game against England and I see the following players are included, none of them Swiss-born to either a Swiss biological parent or grandparent, as far as I can make out, and all have played for Switzerland at international level before they'd have been able to have "lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the [Swiss Football Association]": Innocent Emeghara, Admir Mehmedi, Xherdan Shaqiri, Granit Xhaka, Valon Behrami, Johan Djourou, Blerim Džemaili and Gelson Fernandes.
I'm wondering how exactly they might qualify to play for Switzerland. I note that Swiss nationality law contains a principle on the prevention of statelessness and, indeed, quite a few of them do appear to have Kosovan and Kurdish origins so were possibly stateless originally (?), although there are others like Nigerian-born Emeghara, Ivorian-born Djourou and Cape Verdean-born Fernandes who I'm not so sure about. Djourou was adopted by his father's first wife, a Swiss woman, but article 17 stipulates that the parent must be biological in order for eligibility to be conferred in the instance of a player acquiring a new nationality.
Can anyone shew any light on this?
They wouldn't be changing their nationality though. Simon Cox changed his nationality because he applied for Irish citizenship at the age of 23, or however old he is. Those players would presumably have been Swiss citizens from a young age and therefore were fully entitled to play for Switzerland when the situation arose.
Danny has certainly given the most accurate and comprehensive explanation on the eligibility issue that i've seen, and that includes the so-called professional journalists.Wow, sounds comprehensive. Our McCarthy Quotes article got good exposure on d'radio, so I'd imagine we could help you become the #1 Expert on Irish eligibility
I think we should all help out with any snippets, suggestions and help that could be included in a definitive explanation of the eligibility issue by Danny, it would certainly help to inform the interested & and counter some of the nonsense currently being written.
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