QuoteRead the rest of my posts on this - I haven't disputed his national pride or identity - I was merely commenting on what was posted on his facebook page- I suppose I should have stated "leaving national pride aside"Originally Posted by Predator
I have no idea where you got the notion that it has nothing to do with national pride, or a sense of national allegiance.
End Apartheid Now! One Team in Ireland!
Read the rest of my posts on this - I haven't disputed his national pride or identity - I was merely commenting on what was posted on his facebook page- I suppose I should have stated "leaving national pride aside"
I have a head only Snow White would love
Did you ask your friends if they identify themselves as British? No idea who Francis Campbell is and I've never heard Frank Carson embrace his Britishness. Fair play to you if it's all true though because I live in NI and never met a catholic who think of themselves as British. I know catholics who have British passports but that's for their own reasons and not because of their self identity.
2 working holiday visas in Australia for one!
Depends what part you live I suppose. I have two fiends in particular who both have British passports, both would describe themselves as British, they both support NI, ironically they both support Celtic - but what may have shaped their thinking is that they are from a mixed marriage and raised as Catholics.
Isn't Carson a supporter of UKIP?
I have a head only Snow White would love
No. That was distant relation, Edward...
hahahahhhaa That's a cracker
This might say differnt tho'
http://info-wars.org/2011/02/11/its-...edges-support/
I have a head only Snow White would love
How is supporting Celtic ironic?
Aren't they a British team?
No idea, all I know about Carson is that he is a funny old man who is from from west Belfast and supports Celtic. Does he live here or across the water? Because I don't think UKIP exists here?
I'm from Derry. It's a fairly peaceful place where people respect eachother but catholics see themselves as culturally Irish only. Football is one of the few domains when your culture comes to the fore.
But does being Catholic and culturally Irish mean that you are Nationalist / Republican . The way I'm reading what posters here are saying that if you are a Nationalist then you have no business representing NI. While others seem to be saying that if you are a Catholic but not Nationalist / Republican then it's okay to represent NI.
Am I being over simplistic about it or is that the case.
By the way Carson lives in Blackpool but if you read the article posted you'll see that UKIP were running in the assembly elections.
Forgive me if I'm coming across as ignorant to the situation in NI but I dont live there and therefore I dont have a full appreciation of day to day life there past and present. I've visited plenty of times and have only positive things to say about it stemming from the people of all persuasions that I've met there.
I will admit that when I was younger I had an admiration for Ian Paisley in the way that he stuck up for what he believed in and also for the work that he did for his community including his Catholic constituents in some cases - even tough I mightn't have agreed with his political ideology.
Last edited by greendeiseboy; 17/08/2011 at 10:42 AM.
I have a head only Snow White would love
Surely it's down to each individual, like someone else said.
This is degenerating into an identity discussion.
Can a mod split it and move it here...
http://foot.ie/threads/152653-Irish-...ntities/page3?
Only because it's been stated regularily on here that if you identify as being Nationalist / Republican you have no business playing for NI.
I have a head only Snow White would love
This is the last I will say on it. NI politics lives off sectarianism. It keeps people in jobs and political paties in business. Each election is a sectarian headcount and always will be. Maybe if all education and housing became integrated people might think for themselves but that won't happen. For those reason religion and politics are stuck together whether we like it or not. Maybe this wouldn't necessarily be the case if systematic gerrymandering didn't occur up until 1970 when people of different religions were forced into ghettos which still exist.
With Bucky drawing a line under it I'll return to broad matters of eligibility and their consequences for players from NI.
The thing I find interesting -and that is of concern to NI supporters and the IFA I'd say, is the apparent increase in young lads from nationalist background and primarily from the Derry area who are opting to represent RoI at senior level rather than NI. There is likely a fear that it's becoming what environmentalists discussing melting polar ice caps call a self amplifying feedback loop. In this instance the more who switch the more others will be expected to switch, encouraged/urged/pressurised to switch, the more their switching or likelyhood of switching will be commented and speculated upon and so on. In that regard I think the role of media, be it social, print, broadcast, whatever has had and will continue to have a big influence that it could never have had pre-internet, because I don't believe that either the IFA are driving them away or that the FAI are actively wooing them.
So there is an apparent trend there but what might turn this trend into a mere anomaly, given a couple of years, is the likelihood that at least some of those who've switched are going to be disappointed in the number of games and caps they earn for RoI and may even publically express regret at their decision.
For example, I've never seen this lad McClean play, and maybe his bluff was called by the invitiation to join up with the NI squad for the Faroes game -forcing him to declare his hand, but he's just joined Sunderland for about 100k less than they paid for Roy O'Donovan four years ago. O'Donovan, now at Coventry, is yet to get a cap. The lad at Torquay probably might as well've declared for Turkey for all the likelihood he has of playing senior international football -unless his career takes off.
Last edited by Lionel Ritchie; 17/08/2011 at 12:48 PM. Reason: Grammar is all that stands between "I'm helping my Uncle Jack off a horse" and "I'm helping my uncle jack off a horse"
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
Those mercenaries!
End Apartheid Now! One Team in Ireland!
NB; I think you mentioned a few pages back that Derry City were still members of the IFA. Is this true? I know the club had to request dispensation from the IFA and UEFA/FIFA to join the League of Ireland, but I wasn't aware there was still some affiliation there. Aren't they members of the FAI?
I think Paisley's objections to Catholicism are more theological than sectarian, or that's what he'd claim anyway. Apparently, his Catholic constituents felt well-served by him and who am I to say otherwise?
As for being a Catholic, it doesn't necessarily follow that one is a nationalist or a republican. Of course not. Religion tends to be a social marker in the north, but it's to generalise. Same thing with trying to gauge religious or political background by people's names, or how they pronounce the letter 'H' ("haitch" or "aitch") and, of course, that old famous one; the distance between their eyes...
Catholics can wave the 'Ulster Banner' and play football or golf for NI, but it doesn't compromise their Catholicism. Rory McIlroy is a Catholic unionist, for example. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Then, you can have Protestant republicans; see Ronnie Bunting or Billy Leonard for more contemporary examples than the likes of Wolfe Tone et al. If one considers themselves a nationalist or a republican, then there is an argument there that supporting NI, or even recognising it, according to some, might amount to a contradiction in terms by definition, but self-identity is full of nuances and idiosyncrasies that broad generalisations just can't encompass. Personally, I have no theological interest in Catholicism despite having been baptised one. If anything, I consider myself an agnostic. Obviously the social impact of the Catholic Church on Ireland is something that intrigues me but I've no personal or religious interest in its dogma or doctrines. Politically, I believe in the ideal of a united Ireland, so I guess that makes me a republican. I still acknowledge that NI exists as an entity, however, even though it mightn't be in line with my political aspirations, but I don't think it compromises them. Recognition or acceptance of reality doesn't necessarily amount to validation or support.
Well, they may or the may not. Guys like Tony Kane and Michael O'Connor appear to have regretted their switch and returned to the IFA, but for others, I don't think it will matter; the idea of making themselves available to their country, even at the risk of not making it, is preferable to the idea of picking up a few caps for an entity they mightn't necessarily affiliate with at heart.
Just another thing on the role of Gerry "EPN" Armstrong, presumably you inherently disagree with the IFA even setting up such a position, NB, because if players are having second thoughts about playing for NI, then they shouldn't be considered at all? Or am I picking you up incorrectly?
Ok ....... **** it!!!!!!!!!!!! I`m just gonna say it. (I have been caught at a weak moment as I do try to avoid this thread for the obvious reasons!!)
The problem with NI is that it has a major identity crisis, that point I know is obvious. Are you Irish??? Are you British??? Answer --- Neither........."You are Northern Irish!!!!!" Don't think of yourself as Irish or British, as Catholic/Protestant, black/white, rich/poor & all those other irrelevant social divisions we put ourselves into to help us feel like we have a place in this world. Just as an example i will come at this from a familiar perspective, Scots see themselves as Scottish, those from Wales see themselves as Welsh, those from England are English etc... but NI, are they Irish or British???.
Every country has its violent and unsavoury past, try to look past it. I was born & raised in Ireland(ROI) & what I would love to see is a peaceful united Ireland but above all else I would give everything to see a peaceful NI either as part of a united Ireland or as a united Northern Ireland with a common goal & not divided on such trivial & insignificant reasons such as religion & falsely laid mistrust based on events of which none of us had any baring or influence on. Let go of the the biased psychological mindset of our ancestors, to whom we should not be made responsible for.
To put it simply, at the end of the day when the question is asked, whats the most logical answer for you.........Are you Irish, British or N.Irish??
Apologies for the rant, and I hope that you understand the point I'm trying to make as i must confess I'm much more comfortable with verbal interactions than written discussions.
Last edited by WexCar; 18/08/2011 at 1:32 AM.
"U've figured how to work the Google on the internet machine"
As all contributors here are now all in complete agreement with each other, I think we can now wrap up this thread!
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