Eligibility Rules, Okay

[SwanVsDalton]

Another recruit from Londonderry. Maybe it's time that Londonderry comes under the jurisdiction of the FAI given that Derry City play in the LOI and there clearly is a strong affiliation with the FAI and ROI international teams?

The FAI should probably avoid using that name if they want to retain the 'strong affiliation'.

[greendeiseboy]

Well I feel an affinity (more than that even) for the North, having been born and raised there. I'm proud to be Northern Irish as part of my overall Irish identity. But I have always supported ROI and considered myself ultimately Irish and that has nothing to do with any kind of die hard political belief.

My view is Niall McGinn (and Paddy McCourt) took the route that was open to them at the time and were capped by NI. That does not detract from their commitment and pride to play for NI but I do believe if given the choice, and if it appeared realistic at the time, they would've sought to represent ROI.

In reality a lot of these guys won't get near our squad. They know that. But the fact they'd rather stop pulling NI fans around and play for their country, no matter how unlikely, instead of settling is undoubtedly a good thing.

So basically for these players, NI is a flag of convenience?

My view on all this is that you dont all of a sudden realise that at the age of 20/21 you suddenly support one of the other - you grow up this way.

And to this degree I'm with the Northern Ireland supporters in that there should be cut off age at say under 18 or 19 age level where by you decide who you want to play for and that's that. The argument that this could land them in a international wilderness later on is not valid as there are plenty ROI / NI players who dont make it to senior level anyway from the underage teams.

[Not Brazil]

Another recruit from Londonderry. Maybe it's time that Londonderry comes under the jurisdiction of the FAI given that Derry City play in the LOI and there clearly is a strong affiliation with the FAI and ROI international teams?

Good luck with that.

You forgot to mention, in all your "strong affiliation with the FAI" speak, that Derry City FC are members of the Irish Football Association, playing in the LOI by way of a dispensation from the said IFA.

[bwagner]

Brazil is O'Kane really switching also ??? this is getting a bit nuts

[ifk101]

... they'll go straight to the FAI to discuss their international ambitions.

Yes but they also need to show the FAI that they have the footballing abilities to match their international ambitions. As the FAI isn't in the position of overseeing the development of NI players, players have no choice but to go through the IFA's system to develop their careers until they reach the point where they need to make a decision on who they wish to play for.

[SwanVsDalton]

You make a reasonable point.

The fence shaking is likely to intensify, and more players will get off it.

When the dust settles, maybe those with realistic ambitions of playing for the South, won't even get on the fence in the first place - they'll go straight to the FAI to discuss their international ambitions.

That would be the hope. I've been quite vocal in defending McClean but it's only because I believe a lot of these guys are only starting to wake up to the possibilities and responsibilities eligibility offers. They have the gift of choice but it shouldn't be abused. From this point any young player coming through the NI system cannot plead ignorance. Bit late maybe but if this didn't happen in a couple of years then everyone could draw a line under it and move on. Think it's up to the players at this point.

[Not Brazil]

So basically for these players, NI is a flag of convenience?

My view on all this is that you dont all of a sudden realise that at the age of 20/21 you suddenly support one of the other - you grow up this way.

They're not really being true to themselves, let alone the IFA, are they?

I mean, what self respecting Irish Republican would want to give any credance whatsoever to a State they abhor, and a team they wish didn't exist?

Shake that fence, and see what falls out.

[Not Brazil]

From this point any young player coming through the NI system cannot plead ignorance.

Bang on the money.

These players need to be aware that their days of dicking the IFA about are slowly, but surely, going to disappear.

Do you know, if an 18/19 year old kid was selected for his debut in a Northern Ireland shirt, and came out and said "I will not represent Northern Ireland, because I am an Irish Republican who does not wish to live a lie", I would have a hell of a lot more respect for him, compared to some of what we've seen to this point from "switchers".

[SwanVsDalton]

So basically for these players, NI is a flag of convenience?

My view on all this is that you dont all of a sudden realise that at the age of 20/21 you suddenly support one of the other - you grow up this way.

And to this degree I'm with the Northern Ireland supporters in that there should be cut off age at say under 18 or 19 age level where by you decide who you want to play for and that's that. The argument that this could land them in a international wilderness later on is not valid as there are plenty ROI / NI players who dont make it to senior level anyway from the underage teams.

I'm not sure what point you're making here. It's not simply a 'flag of convenience' - these guys are Norn Iron, they have pride at playing for NI and will represent them with distinction. They are not being mercenary. But that doesn't mean they wouldn't rather play for the ROI, once upon a time, if they felt it was realistic. This attitude seems less prevalent judging by the amount of switching that's going on...and that has to be good all round.

My view is similar to yours but it is made more complex by the access the IFA have to these guys. Simply put, I think it's up to the players. There's no excuse for not being aware of eligibility. Hopefully players will choose risking international wilderness over simply playing.

[Not Brazil]

My view is similar to yours but it is made more complex by the access the IFA have to these guys. Simply put, I think it's up to the players. There's no excuse for not being aware of eligibility. Hopefully players will choose risking international wilderness over simply playing.

These players can let the FAI know of their availability and ambitions from "Day 1" - that way, they don't dick the IFA about.

If things don't work out, they can always contact the IFA, if they have a change of heart, at a later date.

[Not Brazil]

Brazil is O'Kane really switching also ??? this is getting a bit nuts

I believe he is - we'll keep an eye on the press over the next while.

Our Elite Player Mentor, Gerry, will be on his way to Torquay as we speak - bit of a drive from Sunderland.

[greendeiseboy]

I'm not sure what point you're making here. It's not simply a 'flag of convenience' - these guys are Norn Iron, they have pride at playing for NI and will represent them with distinction. They are not being mercenary. But that doesn't mean they wouldn't rather play for the ROI, once upon a time, if they felt it was realistic. This attitude seems less prevalent judging by the amount of switching that's going on...and that has to be good all round.

My view is similar to yours but it is made more complex by the access the IFA have to these guys. Simply put, I think it's up to the players. There's no excuse for not being aware of eligibility. Hopefully players will choose risking international wilderness over simply playing.

But in essence it is becuase if you take McClean for example, he's been with the NI set up for a while now - all of a sudden his profile has risen and is now a Premiership player in the making and as he's stated himself he's decided to move to the ROI for that reason i.e. as it would be beneficial for himself - nothing to do with national pride - as he stated on his facebook page - now it could be argued that he was being in some way diplomatic with that statement but it would have been interesting to see if he'd have withdrawn from the NI squad if the move to the EPL wasnt on the cards

[greendeiseboy]

I believe he is - we'll keep an eye on the press over the next while.

Our Elite Player Mentor, Gerry, will be on his way to Torquay as we speak - bit of a drive from Sunderland.

He'll probably fly and pass the time listening to a Christy Moore album on his Walkman

[SwanVsDalton]

But in essence it is becuase if you take McClean for example, he's been with the NI set up for a while now - all of a sudden his profile has risen and is now a Premiership player in the making and as he's stated himself he's decided to move to the ROI for that reason i.e. as it would be beneficial for himself - nothing to do with national pride - as he stated on his facebook page - now it could be argued that he was being in some way diplomatic with that statement but it would have been interesting to see if he'd have withdrawn from the NI squad if the move to the EPL wasnt on the cards

Again I'm not quite sure what you mean overall - are you saying McClean declared for ROI out of national desire or opportunism?

From what I've gleaned of your post, my response is NI national identity is too subtle to merely say guys like McGinn and McCourt play for them out of convenience. There is room to interpret them as proud to play for NI even if they'd, hand on heart, dreamt of playing for ROI.

Maybe it was MORE convenient for McGinn and McCourt to go NI, but it's not that flippant and doesn't mean they don't have a genuine desire to play for NI. It just suggests they likely have MORE genuine desire to play for ROI.

Regardless it doesn't matter. It's still better these guys declaring for a country, and risking not playing international football, than merely settling imo.

[ArdeeBhoy]

And to this degree I'm with the Northern Ireland supporters in that there should be cut off age at say under 18 or 19 age level where by you decide who you want to play for and that's that. The argument that this could land them in a international wilderness later on is not valid as there are plenty ROI / NI players who dont make it to senior level anyway from the underage teams.

Except there's no need for anybody to declare anything until a full competitive cap is on the table.

And still see don't see anyone addressing the Hypocrisy angle of the IFA et al. As in slowly having more and more players born outside the North.
Have no problem if they're eligible, just the tedious sanctimony that comes with Irish players wanting to play for the Irish team, despite their complete eligibility.

[greendeiseboy]

Again I'm not quite sure what you mean overall - are you saying McClean declared for ROI out of national desire or opportunism?

From what I've gleaned of your post, my response is NI national identity is too subtle to merely say guys like McGinn and McCourt play for them out of convenience. There is room to interpret them as proud to play for NI even if they'd, hand on heart, dreamt of playing for ROI.

Maybe it was MORE convenient for McGinn and McCourt to go NI, but it's not that flippant and doesn't mean they don't have a genuine desire to play for NI. It just suggests they likely have MORE genuine desire to play for ROI.

Regardless it doesn't matter. It's still better these guys declaring for a country, and risking not playing international football, than merely settling imo.

I think it's fairly obvious what I'm saying.

Going only on what he posted himself on his own Facebook page - I'd say a bit of both in his case.

As regards McGinn and McCourt we'll never know

I'm not from the North - even though my great grandfather was from Fermanagh - so I cant comment on national identity in that regard. I've no doubt that they are now proud to play for the North - I suppose my point is really that isn't it "nice" that they have this fallback to have the option to play for one or the other - but not in a mercenary way

[ArdeeBhoy]

I mean, what self respecting Irish Republican would want to give any credance whatsoever to a State they abhor, and a team they wish didn't exist?

So everybody who wants to play for Ireland is a 'republican'?? Yeah, right.
Clearly you don't have much knowledge of what the phrase even means, beyond certain ill-conceived myths....

[ArdeeBhoy]

I mean I was only responding in kind to being called, variously, ignorant, irrational, myopic and (by association) insular. All without any actual evidence.

Hmm, see most of your posts on this topic passim;every single one could have at least one of those adjectives attached...

There has been hypocrisy from the IFA and many of our fans, although is hardly evidence of it. Almost all NI fans I know want nowt to do with Bruce.

What about the individuals CDG refers to in his post yesterday??
Or all the dozens of players in their more junior teams.
Will the IFA be issuing regular apologies to the English FA (& others) for 'poaching' their players??
And taking advantage of their schoolboy football network?

[Bucky-O'Hare]

Of course McGinn and McCourt are only playing for NI out of opportunism. I don't think any catholic in the right mind would be proud to stand for GStQ as their own national anthem. Lets be realistic here. They are professionals who want to play international football. People like Gerry Armstrong who are completely out of touch and being bribed make me sick. I'm just a fairly moderate nationalist talking here.

[SwanVsDalton]

I think it's fairly obvious what I'm saying.

Really?

he's stated himself he's decided to move to the ROI for that reason i.e. as it would be beneficial for himself - nothing to do with national pride - as he stated on his facebook page

Because that's not making an awful sense considered McClean has stated repeatedly the exact opposite...

Going only on what he posted himself on his own Facebook page - I'd say a bit of both in his case.

I don't know what he said on his Facebook page but there's been much discussion about how littered it is with his political persuasions...

But anyhoo I know the guy's an ROI fan and he's said as much so...I still don't know what you're getting at. Do you actually have a problem with a guy choosing to play for his country at the risk of not playing international football at all? Isn't that better for both ROI and NI fans?

I'm not from the North - even though my great grandfather was from Fermanagh - so I cant comment on national identity in that regard. I've no doubt that they are now proud to play for the North - I suppose my point is really that isn't it "nice" that they have this fallback to have the option to play for one or the other - but not in a mercenary way

The only person who's used it as a fallback is Alex Bruce. Gibson, Wilson, McClean et al have chosen to represent their country even though they've faced bitter recrimination and far more competition for squad places. McCourt and McGinn chose to play for the NI presumably because they would be honoured to play international football for Norn Iron and, to a certain extent, felt they wouldn't break in to the ROI set-up (remember McCourt was capped very young, back in 2002). I still don't quite grasp if you're having a go at these guys and, if so, why, but throwing round words like mercenary in relation to them is disrespectful.

It isn't a fallback, but as I said, it is a gift to have the opportunity to play for both and players shouldn't abuse it. Having said that anyone who thinks it's 'nice to have a fallback' should remember how real nice the last 40 years and hundreds previous have been...