Eligibility Rules, Okay

[Sullivinho]

NI journalist Mark McIntosh just tweeted this:



He also broke the news a few months ago that Shane Ferguson was ignoring Nigel's calls.

I'm off out for a few bags of popcorn.

[DannyInvincible]

Wasn't expecting that at all. It's been confirmed by the IFA. Worthington had pretty much made clear McClean wouldn't be featuring in the Faroes game: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/14436621.stm

Derry native McClean has been producing outstanding form for his home town club in this year's Airtricity League.

A mooted move to Peterborough United fell through because the player could not agree personal terms but McClean is now being linked with Sunderland.

Worthington said that McClean is unlikely to get any action against the Faroes but that he will have the chance to impress in the squad environment.

Wonder if that had any impact. I don't understand it though; it's as if McClean has made this decision himself. That can't be right, can it? Can it?!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Why wouldn't it be his decision? Or a tad of sarcasm there?


It's hardly a great surprise on the basis of the rest of this thread. Or on the actions of 'Agent Nigel'.

[Irwin3]

Confusion reigns supreme.

I think Alex Bruce's switch has really confused these 'expert' sports writers.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...eland-republic
"McClean becomes the latest player to turn his back on Northern Ireland, taking advantage of a Fifa ruling that allows players from Ireland to choose which national side they represent providing they have not played for the other in a competitive senior international."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14436621.stm
"No players born in the Republic have switched to Northern Ireland"

Both articles use the same press association piece and both are under the impression that anyone from Ireland can play for either association. I know this was on the table on one point but where do they get their incorrect information from?

[DannyInvincible]

UTV doing the same: http://www.u.tv/Sport/McClean-confir...b-8abd832577c0

What is the original source of this error? The Press Association?: http://www.pressassociation.com/

I e-mailed all three of the BBC, the Guardian and UTV in the middle of June outlining the persistent errors that seemed to arise when it came to reporting this and invited them to read the piece I wrote on the whole thing. I actually got an e-mail back from Andrew Jarvis at UTV telling me he'd passed the information onto the news and sports teams. They clearly didn't do much with it.

[Irwin3]

UTV doing the same: http://www.u.tv/Sport/McClean-confir...b-8abd832577c0

What is the original source of this error? The Press Association?: http://www.pressassociation.com/

I e-mailed all three of the BBC, the Guardian and UTV in the middle of June outlining the persistent errors that seemed to arise when it came to reporting this and invited them to read the piece I wrote on the whole thing. I actually got an e-mail back from Andrew Jarvis at UTV telling me he'd passed the information onto the news and sports teams. They clearly didn't do much with it.

Yeah, they're all recycling a press association piece where the writer has really got their wires crossed. This initial mistake from the PA has found its way to many sites and has no doubt added to the confusion of many readers. I doubt the BBC, Guardian et al even read/check what they are publishing. They probably think if it's good enough for the PA then that's grand.

[Mr_Parker]

UTV doing the same: http://www.u.tv/Sport/McClean-confir...b-8abd832577c0

What is the original source of this error? The Press Association?: http://www.pressassociation.com/

I e-mailed all three of the BBC, the Guardian and UTV in the middle of June outlining the persistent errors that seemed to arise when it came to reporting this and invited them to read the piece I wrote on the whole thing. I actually got an e-mail back from Andrew Jarvis at UTV telling me he'd passed the information onto the news and sports teams. They clearly didn't do much with it.

And good old Paul Ferguson of the Belfast Telegraph is at it again!

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sp...-16033653.html

[BonnieShels]

Kevin 8890 at the bottom of that piece links to Danny's blog. Some of the comments are preposterous. Not surprised, Just saying.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Just saw this on OWC. According to the Irish Daily Mail, the IFA have recruited Gerry Armstrong and entrusted him with the role of persuading players from the north playing under the auspices of the IFA to continue playing with the IFA.

It says he "began work on a 12 month contract yesterday with the remit to persuade players from the North to stay under the IFA banner".

He's quoted as saying, "I am a friendly face, someone the players can talk to", and that he intends to recruit former team mates Jimmy Nicholl, Sammy McIlroy, Terry Cochrane, Chris Nicholl and John McClelland to "sweep Britain and the North to keep players onside".

It has yet to be confirmed whether the IFA will be allocating him the association van and a bag of sweets...

Unless I'm missing something in the theory it runs thus - Gerry is an NI legend of solid nationalist stock (Falls rd?) who had a great time with NI and so he'll be able to talk round and asure wobbling nationalists/players of nationalist background. So where does ex-Rangers boy John McClelland come in? Prevent the next Alan Kernaghan maybe?

[Sullivinho]

Gerry is an NI legend of solid nationalist stock (Falls rd?) who had a great time with NI and so he'll be able to talk round and asure wobbling nationalists/players of nationalist background. So where does ex-Rangers boy John McClelland come in? Prevent the next Alan Kernaghan maybe?

Classic good cop/bad cop.

[ArdeeBhoy]

And good old Paul Ferguson of the Belfast Telegraph is at it again!

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sp...-16033653.html

If you wish you can see/vote in the BT Poll featured on the front page of the link,here.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sp...-15103851.html

[DannyInvincible]

I originally had this posted in the James McClean thread, but it's probably more appropriate to stick it here as it relates pretty much exclusively to eligibility, whilst the latter part deals with northern-born players in general who have declared for the FAI.

Not wishing to be antagonistic , but are you sure? According to Wiki, that is.
But will he be? Would back your judgement on this one.

And out of interest, when did that U-21 rule come into force?
Anyone know?

This took a bit of research, but let me help.

From what I'm reading, Brian McLean should be eligible to play for NI now. I don't see why he wouldn't be. I've never heard of the guy until now, but he played with Scotland competitively at under-17 level in 2002 and then seemed to appear for NI in a friendly in 2006 after he had just happened to turn 21. The IFA had been unaware of his earlier appearance for Scotland, apparently, when they selected him for this friendly and later sent his papers to UEFA to have his eligibility officially verified or validated only for UEFA to respond by informing the IFA that he was actually ineligible to play for them. If the IFA had happened to play him in a competitive game, they'd have been sanctioned and their opponents given a 3-0 victory, according to Jim Boyce in that BBC article.

Presumably, as the IFA argued it was an honest error and McLean had only played for them in a friendly, UEFA weren't all that bothered with enforcing some punishment, if even there are penalties in place to govern actions in friendly games that might otherwise appear to amount to a breach of the rules. Of course, this raises the possibility, as has been alluded to on previous occasions here, that anyone could in fact line out for an association in a non-competitive fixture. Or maybe UEFA are just content to allow an offending association to sweep such a violation under the carpet and let it pass so long as the association can prove it made an honest error that had no bearing on a competitive fixture; I dunno. Weren't there a few English-born guys with Irish-sounding surnames who lined out for us at under-age level about a year or two ago, but it later transpired that any Irish roots they might have had were beyond grand-parentage, meaning they weren't in fact eligible to play for us?

Anyway, I've digressed. The age cap of 21 was lifted in 2009. Prior to the passing of the rule which introduced the age cap of 21 in 2004, I'm pretty certain that once a player lined out for an association at any level, he was tied to that association for good. I have a feeling that FIFA's rationale for relaxing their rules emerged from the realisation prior to the 2002 World Cup that Tim Cahill was actually tied to Samoa (ranked about 170th then) due to him having come on as a substitute for them in two under-20 World Cup qualifiers in 1994 at the age of 14. Although I've also come across sources that say it was a solitary under-17 game for them. Either way, it was a competitive under-age appearance for Samoa whilst he happened to be on holidays in Fiji with his family that actually made him ineligible to declare for another association that just so happened to be us in early 2002. Cahill's paternal grandfather was Irish and he wanted to play for us in the 2002 World Cup, but, alas, it never worked out due to him being tied to Samoa. Nevertheless, it seems he threatened to take FIFA to court in order to lift the restriction and appears to have continued pursuing the matter (I'm not sure whether or not he actually did go to court with it), so possibly that provoked them to move on it and adopt a new set of relaxed rules that they passed in December of 2003. These came into effect on the 1st of January, 2004. By that point, with no World Cup in sight for us and having failed to qualify for Euro 2004, I'd imagine declaring for Australia seemed the more appealing of the options available to Cahill. For what it's worth, he was also eligible for Scotland through another grandparent.

This is the version of FIFA's Statutes that came into effect on the 1st of January, 2004: http://www.safa.net/pics/safa/Statutes_09_2005_EN.pdf

The relevant article read as follows:

Article 15.3

If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if the Player is eligible to play for several Association teams due to his nationality, the following exceptions apply:

(a) Up to his 21st birthday, a player may only once request changing the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches. A Player may exercise this right to change Associations only if he has not played at “A" international level for his current Association and if at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an official competition of any other category, he already had such nationalities. Changing Associations is not permitted during the preliminary competition of a FIFA competition, continental championship or Olympic Tournaments if a player has already been fielded in a match of one of these competitions.

...

Article15.5

Any Players who have already had their 21st birthday at the time of implementation of these provisions and who fulfil the requirements in par. 3 (a) are also entitled to submit such a request to change Associations. This entitlement will expire definitively twelve months after implementation of this provision.

The exception outlined in 15.5 enabled Cahill, who was actually a few years over 21 in 2004 - he would have been 24 or 25 - to declare for Australia. As McLean was under 21 at the time of the passing of those rules in 2004, he would have been eligible to play for the IFA from this point only until his 21st birthday in 2006 (not including the previous period before he appeared for Scotland at under-17 level). When he sought to declare for NI, it was after his 21st birthday, so obviously the exception in article 15.5 would not have applied to him as he hadn't been over 21 at the time the provision was passed. Of course, he should have become eligible again for NI in 2009 when the age cap was lifted, unless there's some complication there of which I'm unaware.

By the way, the latest edition of FIFA's Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes released just this month appear to have changed the articles relating to eligibility from articles 15-18 to articles 5-8: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affe...uten2011_e.pdf

I don't think there's been any change to the wording, mind.

I've firmly believed that they have consistently attempted to embarrass all of the "recruits" knowing full well that they have no intention of ever turning out for the Province.

Or they are idiots...

yeah it's hard to know.

Well, those at the IFA setting out to embarrass these players and those at the IFA being idiots aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

I've often said it, but they exploited Shane Duffy in such a manner. They used him as a scapegoat to garner publicity and sympathy for their cause. I know that the IFA had known of Duffy's official moves to switch to the FAI three weeks before Worthington called him into their squad for a game with Albania in February of 2010. Essentially, Worthington called him into the team knowing he would have to withdraw and that this would spark a huge deal of subsequent outrage. Simply leaving him out of the squad would have been no use as nobody would have questioned his absence or been any the wiser given he wasn't a regular anyway. And so, Duffy withdrew to the faux-bewilderment of Worthington; Duffy's application to switch associations already having been registered with the FAI and FIFA three weeks prior. Off the back the furore, the IFA took Daniel Kearns to CAS. Of course, they couldn't have taken Duffy to CAS as he would have been eligible for us anyway through his Donegal father even if the eligibility criteria demanded a territorial link (as the IFA were arguing should apply) rather than mere possession of a particular nationality. I don't see why they wouldn't do it again as it keeps the issue in the news and enables them to play their victim complex, although I'm not so sure it really helps their cause any great deal as the vitriolic reaction it provokes within their support simply happens to have an alienating effect on nationalists.

[DannyInvincible]

And good old Paul Ferguson of the Belfast Telegraph is at it again!

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sp...-16033653.html

That particular article actually opened with a description of James McClean as a "boastful turncoat" before it was edited at some later point. Extraordinary really.

Unless I'm missing something in the theory it runs thus - Gerry is an NI legend of solid nationalist stock (Falls rd?) who had a great time with NI and so he'll be able to talk round and asure wobbling nationalists/players of nationalist background. So where does ex-Rangers boy John McClelland come in? Prevent the next Alan Kernaghan maybe?

Ha, indeed. Anyhow, about Armstrong; he is actually from Fintona in County Tyrone. I didn't even know that until last week. Was he raised on the Falls Road? Maybe he was. Anyway, perhaps I'm just speaking for myself, but the thing is, I'm not even sure if his name really resonates with young nationalists as regards what he did on the football pitch, never mind the name of John McClelland (as I struggle to think of who he even is). Well, with those from Derry at least. Possibly he's adored by those in Belfast - I don't know - and I wouldn't necessarily want to generalise, but I don't think I've ever encountered anyone in person even discussing his footballing days, never mind idolising him or whatever you'd want to call it. But maybe that's just down to the company with which life has blessed me over the years. I'm trying to think, but any NI fans I happen to know would be no more than acquaintances really, who mightn't be massively into football at that. Obviously, people have heard the name and will recognise the face, and I know oul' Gerry is considered a legend by NI fans and all that. I've even seen a poster on OWC explain how they'd find it hard to envisage how anyone in the locality mightn't worship him as some sort of hero, but, to be honest, when I was growing up, to me he was just that funny-sounding guy on the telly who sounded well out of place commentating on sexy Spanish football due to his northern accent. Well, until he'd remind you for the umpteenth time about some bloody goal he'd scored against Spain about a decade and a half earlier, of course. And that's not to be dismissive of what he achieved for NI or whatever; he just wasn't someone who had any real impact on me as regards his footballing abilities. My heroes were the likes of Roy Keane, Shay Given, Packie Bonner and Paul McGrath. I'd imagine he's even more of an irrelevancy to those even younger than myself.

If the IFA were to employ one man and one man only to fulfil some "pastoral" role, I'd recommend Martin O'Neill. He's exceptionally well-respected, especially around Derry, and might hold significant sway with young nationalists, but whether he'd be bothered with it all is another question. I can't imagine players switching to the FAI bothers him too much personally.

[Gather round]

Ha, indeed. Anyhow, about Armstrong; he is actually from Fintona in County Tyrone. I didn't even know that until last week. Was he raised on the Falls Road? Maybe he was

Gerry's parents and siblings lived on Beechmount Avenue (lower Falls) in the 70s and 80s.

[ArdeeBhoy]

So he's really one of 'us'. Good man.

Shame he's not 25 years younger...

[SwanVsDalton]

McDonnell gets in on the GFA act for the Indo.

[Drumcondra 69er]

McDonnell gets in on the GFA act for the Indo.

Beat me to it, saw that this morning and was waiting for the firewall in work to come down before posting.

Few inaccuracies in there which is disappointing considering McDonnell certainly used to post here and I would imagine still reads what's posted from time to time. As well as the red herring regarding the GFA he mentions the gentlemans agreement being in place till players were 17 which I've never heard before, maybe it's something that's catching from their sister paper up North.......

DannyInvincibles piece should be essential reading for any journalists writing on the matter on both sides of the border....

[BonnieShels]

I don't know where to begin with that article. Absolutely terrible. Not surprising, just terrible.

It reeks of southern nimbyism. An attitude that is prevalent throughout the Free State.
The lack of understanding of Nationalism and constant reference to Catholics really wrecks my head.

[SwanVsDalton]

I don't know where to begin with that article. Absolutely terrible. Not surprising, just terrible.

It reeks of southern nimbyism. An attitude that is prevalent throughout the Free State.
The lack of understanding of Nationalism and constant reference to Catholics really wrecks my head.

I don't think it's too bad but that's probably because I'm accustomed to it. I know exactly what you mean - comes across that's he trying too hard to be measured, trying too hard not to offend, possibly because he lacks the understanding required to write definitively.

[Stuttgart88]

I read it on the train this morning and thought it was arguably the worst article on the topic yet. I'm in a new job so can't go to chat sites at work for a while.