Amen to that!!
Meantime...
Many, many years ago when I was twenty-three
I was married to a widow who was pretty as could be
This widow had a grownup daughter who had hair of red
My father fell in love with her, and soon they too were wed
This made my Dad my son-in-law and really changed my life
For now my daughter was my mother, 'cause she was my father's wife
And to complicate the matter, even though it brought me joy,
I soon became the father of a bouncing baby boy
My little baby then became a brother-in-law to Dad
And so became my uncle, though it made me very sad
For if he were my uncle, then that also made him brother
Of the widow's grownup daughter, who was of course my stepmother
Father's wife then had a son who kept them on the run
And he became my grandchild, for he was my daughter's son
My wife is now my mother's mother, and it makes me blue
Because although she is my wife, she's my grandmother too
Now if my wife is my grandmother, then I'm her grandchild
And every time I think of it, it nearly drives me wild
'Cause now I have become the strangest case you ever saw
As husband of my grandmother, I am my own grandpa
I'm my own grandpa,
I'm my own grandpa,
It sounds funny, I know
But it really is so
I'm my own grandpa
So, when we run out of real footballers to discuss, or this topic encroaches into other threads, can you all come back here and work this one out?
Could be as effective as writing PTO on both sides of a piece of paper to keep people out of mischief...
This is FIFA legal stuff, not UK law or US law or Napoleonic Law. As I wrote, the Bruce decision is binding until FIFA rule otherwise and there is not much chance of that happening. To quote from the CAS ruling on Kearns "The regulations put in place by FIFA are binding and must be observed at all times by every member association."
I think we can say that second generation Irish like Ciaran Clark, are born Irish citizens, therefore qualify for the FAI under article 15.
I think we can say that Alex Bruce was not an Irish citizen when he was born, as he was a 3rd generation, born to english born parents (Steve Bruce and wife), then I presume his status was that he had to acquire Irish citizenry, which he was entitled to do under the Irish citizenship laws.
I´d say it is most likely that a 3rd generation footballer has to acquire Irish nationality in order to be eligible to play for the FAI and is eligible under article 17. I'd say it is most likely that he does not qualify under article 15, even though his acquired Irish nationality is permanent and without residence requirements.
Though I don´t rule it out completely, I just cant see it.
That leaves the question of place of birth of Bruce's grandparents - Northern Ireland. Why are FIFA not concerned that Bruce's grandparents are not born inside the 26 counties? I conclude that FIFA legal dept. are satisfied that the grandparents are born in a territory from which automatic Irish nationality is granted.
Howards wells is on record saying he did ask in writing to the FIFA legal department clarification about the eligibility of Bruce, referring exactly to Bruces´ grandparent link to Northern Ireland.Alternatively, iirc the IFA did not make a Test Case out of Bruce in the same way as they subsequently did with Gibson or Kearns. Therefore it is possible that nobody at FIFA looked too closely at Bruce's particular case. Which may sound unlikely, except that it took a wave of protests by other African Associations to alert FIFA to the fact that both Qatar and Cape Verde were preparing to confer nationality on some second-rate Brazilian players etc. Moreover, I have seen it reported that there are eg Kosovans playing for Albania, or Japanese playing for North Korea, whose eligibility would not bear close scrutiny, should eg Serbia or Japan/S.Korea lodge an official protest.
You appear to be trying to paint a picture of FIFA ineptitude in its legal department. Whilst corruption is present in FIFA and obvious commercial interests guide decisions, that does not mean the whole lot is corrupt. Far from it. FIFA has a reputation to maintain, especially in these legal matters. It cannot be seen to be inept/biased/corrupt in the eligibility issue. There is way too much face to lose by exercising cronyism or favouritism here.
So far I have not come across one FIFA eligibility case, in all the cases that FIFA deal with, as being bogus.
The Qatar case in 2003 was not bogus. As per FIFA rules, Qatar could get their Brazilians, Qatar were seen as attempting to abuse the rules albeit legally. FIFA acted with haste and changed the rules so they could not get the Brazilians.
The couple of Japanese born who play for North Korea, qualify under the parentage or grand parent connection to play for North Korea.
It is well known that Kosovars have been eligible to play for Albania. Kosova has gained some form of independence in 2008-2010 and is looking for its players to come back.
The FIFA legal department is on the ball and and do their work appropriately scrutinising the eligibility applications that come their way.
Last edited by geysir; 09/02/2011 at 11:04 AM.
OK, here's one for ya.
In 1950, FIFA instructed the IFA to stop selecting ROI-born players, even though some of them will themselves have been born pre-Partition, and all of their parents/grandparents.
At the time of the Gibson dispute (2009), FIFA wrote to the IFA (and FAI) offering to permit the IFA to select ROI-born players, with no question of such players needing parents/grandparents from the ROI.
Where is your "precedent" for that?
"On the other hand, the Executive Committee consider it inadmissible to select
players, being citizens of Eire, for the representative teams of a country other
than Eire. An exception from this rule is only allowable in respect of the
international matches between the four British Associations if those countries
agree and the F.A. of Ireland do not object, but not for matches played in Jules
Rimet Cup."
There does not have to be precedent for FIFA to vote in an eligibility rule to the statutes. The rules are binding. New rules replace the old. The Bruce precedent supports the eligibility rules as they stand now.
FIFA allowing associations to meet together and come up with an agreement of how they slice up common assets, is in harmony with FIFA's constitution.
FIFA allowed the 4 UK home associations to meet in private and trash out an agreement, which FIFA examined and approved of.
FIFA reserve the right to approve or disapprove of such agreements.
Any such agreements, as per FIFA rules, have to be lodged with FIFA and officially annexed to the statute books.
Only the IFA could present the 1950 argument as reason why the FAI should not be allowed to select Kearns in 2009.
Only the IFA and apparently some OWC fans, could perceive some rationality in that argument.
Last edited by geysir; 09/02/2011 at 10:50 AM.
Without meaning to be pedantic it was Cas's mother who was adopted by an Irishman who had settled in England. Therefore her Irish citizenship was confered upon her due to her adoptive father being Irish (O'Malley) and Cas citizenship followed that path despite him not technically having Irish blood. As far as I'm aware he would still qualify as his Grandad (albeit by adoption) was born in Ireland.
I'm shocked to read that Stutts is little more than a plastic paddy.
Stick it in the pan
Ok so as Irish fans we just need to start adopting certain kids with serious potential?
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
I see Marvin O'Connor played a blinder for France against Ireland - and scored too!!!
.....mildly off topic I know - but any chance we could turn him!
Correct - Same position as myself and if you dont mind me saying you've gone right down in my estimation knowing you werent supping a cafe late in Harrods on the morning of said childrens births, eagerly awaiting 9:30am for the Embassy to open with duly completed paperwork in hand......
EDIT: Correct - as in, when you get of your ass......
I thought you were off the drink Ronnie?
"No, I drink to help me mind my own business....can I get you one? (c) Ronnie Drew
You'd think that an accident of birth place shouldn't dilute Stutt's rights as an Irish citizen, if he has grown up in Ireland.
Is his blood any less green because he wasn't born in an Irish hospital/nursing home?
His full rights, as in being able to father a 100% Irish citizen, are cruelly denied. He's somewhat greenmasculated by an archaic legality.
We were around in my friend's house for lunch yesterday in Buckinghamshire. His 8 year-old Chelsea-mad boy & his sister took my kids upstairs to play FIFA 11 on the Wii. I wasn't even in the room but my boy chose to be Ireland and my girl chose to be Shamrock Rovers.
What more do you want?
Chelsea whupped their asses each time mind you.
What more do I want? I'd like the state to fully recognise your green parenting.
Geysir tell that to the Americans.And lots of other nations!
I apologise, possibly there is a hint that I might think there is a context for using such a term as an insult or some negative connotation.
Whilst the hint may be there, it was not intended.
I have become more humble.Has my presence here taught you people nothing?
Good, glad to hear it. Now, write out 100 times "Proud to be Plastic".
PP
Last edited by Plastic Paddy; 15/02/2011 at 12:22 PM.
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