Page 3 of 380 FirstFirst 123451353103 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 7589

Thread: Eligibility Rules, Okay

  1. #41
    First Team
    Joined
    May 2010
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    2,033
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    897
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,302
    Thanked in
    631 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Sullivinho View Post
    Stick it and move all stray, relevant posts here in future I say.
    Amen to that!!

    Meantime...

    Many, many years ago when I was twenty-three
    I was married to a widow who was pretty as could be
    This widow had a grownup daughter who had hair of red
    My father fell in love with her, and soon they too were wed

    This made my Dad my son-in-law and really changed my life
    For now my daughter was my mother, 'cause she was my father's wife
    And to complicate the matter, even though it brought me joy,
    I soon became the father of a bouncing baby boy

    My little baby then became a brother-in-law to Dad
    And so became my uncle, though it made me very sad
    For if he were my uncle, then that also made him brother
    Of the widow's grownup daughter, who was of course my stepmother

    Father's wife then had a son who kept them on the run
    And he became my grandchild, for he was my daughter's son
    My wife is now my mother's mother, and it makes me blue
    Because although she is my wife, she's my grandmother too

    Now if my wife is my grandmother, then I'm her grandchild
    And every time I think of it, it nearly drives me wild
    'Cause now I have become the strangest case you ever saw
    As husband of my grandmother, I am my own grandpa

    I'm my own grandpa,
    I'm my own grandpa,
    It sounds funny, I know
    But it really is so
    I'm my own grandpa

    So, when we run out of real footballers to discuss, or this topic encroaches into other threads, can you all come back here and work this one out?

    Could be as effective as writing PTO on both sides of a piece of paper to keep people out of mischief...

  2. Thanks From:


  3. #42
    Capped Player
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    14,366
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,564
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,500
    Thanked in
    1,702 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post

    Precedent is only a guide to future action, not a binding constraint, especially if that precedent may be demonstrated to have been the result of oversight or error.

    In which case, under which FIFA Article (15? 17? Some other?) do you consider that players born outside of Ireland, with only an NI-born grandparent, may qualify for ROI?
    This is FIFA legal stuff, not UK law or US law or Napoleonic Law. As I wrote, the Bruce decision is binding until FIFA rule otherwise and there is not much chance of that happening. To quote from the CAS ruling on Kearns "The regulations put in place by FIFA are binding and must be observed at all times by every member association."
    I think we can say that second generation Irish like Ciaran Clark, are born Irish citizens, therefore qualify for the FAI under article 15.
    I think we can say that Alex Bruce was not an Irish citizen when he was born, as he was a 3rd generation, born to english born parents (Steve Bruce and wife), then I presume his status was that he had to acquire Irish citizenry, which he was entitled to do under the Irish citizenship laws.
    I´d say it is most likely that a 3rd generation footballer has to acquire Irish nationality in order to be eligible to play for the FAI and is eligible under article 17. I'd say it is most likely that he does not qualify under article 15, even though his acquired Irish nationality is permanent and without residence requirements.
    Though I don´t rule it out completely, I just cant see it.
    That leaves the question of place of birth of Bruce's grandparents - Northern Ireland. Why are FIFA not concerned that Bruce's grandparents are not born inside the 26 counties? I conclude that FIFA legal dept. are satisfied that the grandparents are born in a territory from which automatic Irish nationality is granted.

    Alternatively, iirc the IFA did not make a Test Case out of Bruce in the same way as they subsequently did with Gibson or Kearns. Therefore it is possible that nobody at FIFA looked too closely at Bruce's particular case. Which may sound unlikely, except that it took a wave of protests by other African Associations to alert FIFA to the fact that both Qatar and Cape Verde were preparing to confer nationality on some second-rate Brazilian players etc. Moreover, I have seen it reported that there are eg Kosovans playing for Albania, or Japanese playing for North Korea, whose eligibility would not bear close scrutiny, should eg Serbia or Japan/S.Korea lodge an official protest.
    Howards wells is on record saying he did ask in writing to the FIFA legal department clarification about the eligibility of Bruce, referring exactly to Bruces´ grandparent link to Northern Ireland.
    You appear to be trying to paint a picture of FIFA ineptitude in its legal department. Whilst corruption is present in FIFA and obvious commercial interests guide decisions, that does not mean the whole lot is corrupt. Far from it. FIFA has a reputation to maintain, especially in these legal matters. It cannot be seen to be inept/biased/corrupt in the eligibility issue. There is way too much face to lose by exercising cronyism or favouritism here.
    So far I have not come across one FIFA eligibility case, in all the cases that FIFA deal with, as being bogus.
    The Qatar case in 2003 was not bogus. As per FIFA rules, Qatar could get their Brazilians, Qatar were seen as attempting to abuse the rules albeit legally. FIFA acted with haste and changed the rules so they could not get the Brazilians.
    The couple of Japanese born who play for North Korea, qualify under the parentage or grand parent connection to play for North Korea.
    It is well known that Kosovars have been eligible to play for Albania. Kosova has gained some form of independence in 2008-2010 and is looking for its players to come back.
    The FIFA legal department is on the ball and and do their work appropriately scrutinising the eligibility applications that come their way.
    Last edited by geysir; 09/02/2011 at 11:04 AM.

  4. #43
    First Team EalingGreen's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2,158
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    15
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    30
    Thanked in
    25 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by geysir View Post
    This is FIFA legal stuff, not UK law or US law or Napoleonic Law. As I wrote, the Bruce decision is binding until FIFA rule otherwise and there is not much chance of that happening. To quote from the CAS ruling on Kearns "The regulations put in place by FIFA are binding and must be observed at all times by every member association."
    I think we can say that second generation Irish like Ciaran Clark, are born Irish citizens, therefore qualify for the FAI under article 15.
    I think we can say that Alex Bruce was not an Irish citizen when he was born, as he was a 3rd generation, born to english born parents (Steve Bruce and wife), then I presume his status was that he had to acquire Irish citizenry, which he was entitled to do under the Irish citizenship laws.
    I´d say it is most likely that a 3rd generation footballer has to acquire Irish nationality in order to be eligible to play for the FAI and is eligible under article 17. I'd say it is most likely that he does not qualify under article 15, even though his acquired Irish nationality is permanent and without residence requirements.
    Though I don´t rule it out completely, I just cant see it.
    That leaves the question of place of birth of Bruce's grandparents - Northern Ireland. Why are FIFA not concerned that Bruce's grandparents are not born inside the 26 counties? I conclude that FIFA legal dept. are satisfied that the grandparents are born in a territory from which automatic Irish nationality is granted.


    Howards wells is on record saying he did ask in writing to the FIFA legal department clarification about the eligibility of Bruce, referring exactly to Bruces´ grandparent link to Northern Ireland.
    You appear to be trying to paint a picture of FIFA ineptitude in its legal department. Whilst corruption is present in FIFA and obvious commercial interests guide decisions, that does not mean the whole lot is corrupt. Far from it. FIFA has a reputation to maintain, especially in these legal matters. It cannot be seen to be inept/biased/corrupt in the eligibility issue. There is way too much face to lose by exercising cronyism or favouritism here.
    So far I have not come across one FIFA eligibility case, in all the cases that FIFA deal with, as being bogus.
    The Qatar case in 2003 was not bogus. As per FIFA rules, Qatar could get their Brazilians, Qatar were seen as attempting to abuse the rules albeit legally. FIFA acted with haste and changed the rules so they could not get the Brazilians.
    The couple of Japanese born who play for North Korea, qualify under the parentage or grand parent connection to play for North Korea.
    It is well known that Kosovars have been eligible to play for Albania. Kosova has gained independence in 2004 and is looking for its players to come back.
    The FIFA legal department is on the ball and and do their work appropriately scrutinising the eligibility applications that come their way.
    OK, here's one for ya.

    In 1950, FIFA instructed the IFA to stop selecting ROI-born players, even though some of them will themselves have been born pre-Partition, and all of their parents/grandparents.

    At the time of the Gibson dispute (2009), FIFA wrote to the IFA (and FAI) offering to permit the IFA to select ROI-born players, with no question of such players needing parents/grandparents from the ROI.

    Where is your "precedent" for that?

  5. #44
    Seasoned Pro ifk101's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2003
    Posts
    3,254
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    81
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    346
    Thanked in
    207 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post

    In 1950, FIFA instructed the IFA to stop selecting ROI-born players, even though some of them will themselves have been born pre-Partition, and all of their parents/grandparents.
    "On the other hand, the Executive Committee consider it inadmissible to select
    players, being citizens of Eire, for the representative teams of a country other
    than Eire.
    An exception from this rule is only allowable in respect of the
    international matches between the four British Associations if those countries
    agree and the F.A. of Ireland do not object, but not for matches played in Jules
    Rimet Cup."

  6. #45
    Capped Player
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    14,366
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,564
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,500
    Thanked in
    1,702 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post
    OK, here's one for ya.

    In 1950, FIFA instructed the IFA to stop selecting ROI-born players, even though some of them will themselves have been born pre-Partition, and all of their parents/grandparents.

    At the time of the Gibson dispute (2009), FIFA wrote to the IFA (and FAI) offering to permit the IFA to select ROI-born players, with no question of such players needing parents/grandparents from the ROI.

    Where is your "precedent" for that?
    There does not have to be precedent for FIFA to vote in an eligibility rule to the statutes. The rules are binding. New rules replace the old. The Bruce precedent supports the eligibility rules as they stand now.

    FIFA allowing associations to meet together and come up with an agreement of how they slice up common assets, is in harmony with FIFA's constitution.
    FIFA allowed the 4 UK home associations to meet in private and trash out an agreement, which FIFA examined and approved of.
    FIFA reserve the right to approve or disapprove of such agreements.
    Any such agreements, as per FIFA rules, have to be lodged with FIFA and officially annexed to the statute books.

    Only the IFA could present the 1950 argument as reason why the FAI should not be allowed to select Kearns in 2009.
    Only the IFA and apparently some OWC fans, could perceive some rationality in that argument.
    Last edited by geysir; 09/02/2011 at 10:50 AM.

  7. #46
    First Team
    Joined
    Mar 2007
    Location
    NCR
    Posts
    1,631
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    32
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    246
    Thanked in
    127 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    Is there any ambiguity relating to the requirement to have a biological parent born on the territory (notwithstanding the Alex Bruce precedent / interpretation) or a (no mention of biological) grandparent born on the territory.

    So, for example, Tony Cascarino would not be eligible under today's rule, but his kids might be, no? He was adoped by an Irish woman.

    Is the FIFA "biological parent" wording discriminatory?

    Also, the active interpretation of Article 18.1 (a) is that in order to change association if you have played a competitive underage international for one country is that at the time you played at that level for your first country then you must also have been eligible to play for your "new" country. I'm pretty sure this follows from Ciaran Clark (I'm assuming he played competitive underage footy for England and was not an Irish passport holder at the time).

    Mods - delete if rubbished by Geysir or anyone else!
    Without meaning to be pedantic it was Cas's mother who was adopted by an Irishman who had settled in England. Therefore her Irish citizenship was confered upon her due to her adoptive father being Irish (O'Malley) and Cas citizenship followed that path despite him not technically having Irish blood. As far as I'm aware he would still qualify as his Grandad (albeit by adoption) was born in Ireland.

  8. Thanks From:


  9. #47
    Capped Player
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    14,366
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,564
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,500
    Thanked in
    1,702 Posts
    I'm shocked to read that Stutts is little more than a plastic paddy.

  10. #48
    International Prospect
    Joined
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,232
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,142
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    570
    Thanked in
    445 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Sullivinho View Post
    Stick it and move all stray, relevant posts here in future I say.
    What was wrong with the main eligibility thread which was running most of last year almost 100 pages, mainly before the CAS hearing and after??
    Plus there must be about 7 other threads. Amalgamate them all so the likes of Skstu and Boovidge can avoid them....

  11. #49
    Youth Team
    Joined
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    244
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    135
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    93
    Thanked in
    52 Posts
    Stick it in the pan

  12. #50
    Capped Player
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Maígh Eó
    Posts
    14,800
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,855
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    831
    Thanked in
    664 Posts
    Ok so as Irish fans we just need to start adopting certain kids with serious potential?
    I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
    And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
    I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
    Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away

  13. #51
    First Team
    Joined
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,890
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    440
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    175
    Thanked in
    103 Posts
    I see Marvin O'Connor played a blinder for France against Ireland - and scored too!!!

    .....mildly off topic I know - but any chance we could turn him!

  14. #52
    Seasoned Pro
    Joined
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    3,283
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    423
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    324
    Thanked in
    228 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    I have to go down the foreign birth registration route for my English born kids because I was born in Scotland to Irish parents. Are my kids Irish citizens or only when I get off my ass down to Knightsbridge and complete the foreign birth forms? I'd assume from what Geysir says about Clark, it's the former.
    Correct - Same position as myself and if you dont mind me saying you've gone right down in my estimation knowing you werent supping a cafe late in Harrods on the morning of said childrens births, eagerly awaiting 9:30am for the Embassy to open with duly completed paperwork in hand......


    EDIT: Correct - as in, when you get of your ass......
    I thought you were off the drink Ronnie?

    "No, I drink to help me mind my own business....can I get you one? (c) Ronnie Drew

  15. #53
    Capped Player
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    14,366
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,564
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,500
    Thanked in
    1,702 Posts
    You'd think that an accident of birth place shouldn't dilute Stutt's rights as an Irish citizen, if he has grown up in Ireland.
    Is his blood any less green because he wasn't born in an Irish hospital/nursing home?
    His full rights, as in being able to father a 100% Irish citizen, are cruelly denied. He's somewhat greenmasculated by an archaic legality.

  16. #54
    Capped Player
    Joined
    May 2004
    Posts
    16,909
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    5,585
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,680
    Thanked in
    2,095 Posts
    We were around in my friend's house for lunch yesterday in Buckinghamshire. His 8 year-old Chelsea-mad boy & his sister took my kids upstairs to play FIFA 11 on the Wii. I wasn't even in the room but my boy chose to be Ireland and my girl chose to be Shamrock Rovers.

    What more do you want?

    Chelsea whupped their asses each time mind you.

  17. #55
    Capped Player
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    14,366
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,564
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,500
    Thanked in
    1,702 Posts
    What more do I want? I'd like the state to fully recognise your green parenting.

  18. #56
    Capped Player
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Maígh Eó
    Posts
    14,800
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,855
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    831
    Thanked in
    664 Posts
    Geysir tell that to the Americans.And lots of other nations!

  19. #57
    First Team Plastic Paddy's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Somewhere in the hills around London
    Posts
    2,346
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    31
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    26
    Thanked in
    19 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by geysir View Post
    I'm shocked to read that Stutts is little more than a plastic paddy.
    You use the term as if it is an insult. Has my presence here taught you people nothing?

    PP
    Semper in faecibus sole profundum variat

  20. #58
    Capped Player
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    14,366
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,564
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,500
    Thanked in
    1,702 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    Geysir tell that to the Americans.And lots of other nations!
    Oft times, it's hard to credit the disconnected directions your brain activity takes in a discussion.

  21. #59
    Capped Player
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    14,366
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,564
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,500
    Thanked in
    1,702 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy View Post
    You use the term as if it is an insult.
    I apologise, possibly there is a hint that I might think there is a context for using such a term as an insult or some negative connotation.
    Whilst the hint may be there, it was not intended.

    Has my presence here taught you people nothing?
    I have become more humble.

  22. #60
    First Team Plastic Paddy's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Somewhere in the hills around London
    Posts
    2,346
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    31
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    26
    Thanked in
    19 Posts
    Good, glad to hear it. Now, write out 100 times "Proud to be Plastic".

    PP
    Last edited by Plastic Paddy; 15/02/2011 at 12:22 PM.
    Semper in faecibus sole profundum variat

Page 3 of 380 FirstFirst 123451353103 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Eligibility Rules, Okay
    By TheOneWhoKnocks in forum Rubbish
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03/02/2017, 11:17 AM
  2. Eligibility Rules, Okay
    By geysir in forum Rubbish
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12/11/2013, 9:47 AM
  3. Problem - eligibility
    By SkStu in forum Support
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 25/05/2011, 8:14 AM
  4. Eligibility proposal
    By paul_oshea in forum Ireland
    Replies: 1111
    Last Post: 02/01/2008, 8:20 AM
  5. Eligibility Rules
    By Stuttgart88 in forum Ireland
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 10/11/2004, 5:40 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •