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Thread: Eligibility Rules, Okay

  1. #7621
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    Quote Originally Posted by EalingGreen View Post
    "Sole basis"?

    If eg you refer back to my post #7593, you'll see where I replied to the question: "Why would any Catholic/Nationalist/Republican want to play for [Wright]?" with:

    "Why don't you ask eg Joe Shaughnessy, Graham Cummings, David McMillan, Patrick Cregg or Tim Clancy? (Those being the ROI players he signed for St.Johnstone)

    Or Alan Maybury, who he took on as Assistant Coach a couple of years back.

    Or the dozens of CNR players he coached/managed previously eg at Limavady, Ballymena and Distillery, or with NI's under-age teams?

    Or if those are too far from your neck of the woods, you could ask any of the players he coached at Shamrock Rovers.

    You know, when he was appointed by his good friend and former teammate, Michael O'Neill..."


    You see, one of the factors which has distinguished Tommy's career in management is his ability to get the best from his players, even when they're otherwise limited. Which is hardly going to be sustained down the years if the guy's got the unpleasant, bigoted personality which some people try to ascribe to him.

    Then again, mere evidence like that probably holds no weight with those self-same small-minded people when they're determined to hold onto their prejudices about "themmuns" no matter what.
    In that case EG I belated apologise and withdraw that remark I obviously wasn’t diligent enough to pay proper attention to your post and certainly not to read previous posts. I will leave you all to it on this one.

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  3. #7622
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    Well this is an absolute minefield...

    https://www.si.com/soccer/2020/08/19...nal-allegiance

    First thought - Obafemi would/will no longer be confirmed for Ireland.

    Smallbone could be capped in the Nations League and would still not be confirmed.

    It doesn't seem to solve our Johansson/Crowley issue but creates a whole load of new ones.

    Trying to find a positve...Marcus McGuane could maybe become eligible again I think. And Grealish I suppose, but that won't be happening.

    Don't like the look of this at all to be honest.
    Keane O'Shea Given Best Smallbone

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eirambler View Post
    Well this is an absolute minefield...

    https://www.si.com/soccer/2020/08/19...nal-allegiance

    First thought - Obafemi would/will no longer be confirmed for Ireland.

    Smallbone could be capped in the Nations League and would still not be confirmed.

    It doesn't seem to solve our Johansson/Crowley issue but creates a whole load of new ones.

    Trying to find a positve...Marcus McGuane could maybe become eligible again I think. And Grealish I suppose, but that won't be happening.

    Don't like the look of this at all to be honest.
    Great find thank you. Would like this to happen would stop us been cynical " just play will ferry for a minute in a nations league game so he cant ever switch " which you see so many advocating on ybig with no thought for the actual player.

    You would hope you still wouldn't get too many ones like rice who would walk when they were wanted . Great shout on mcguane he played in those euros so he must have a passport ( hard to know how though cause he was brought in last minute that season ) .

    I can see why u say it wouldn't solve the crowley or johanson problem but you would hope that a new decree like this would take precedent over that passport bylaw which seemed to have been ignored before the Luxembourgers got upset. Overall I think a positive with potential for crushing heartbreak at some point. I'll take any rule change that brings crowley in as our number 10 nearly 10 years after he first played for us.

  5. #7624
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    How ironic would it be in Kenny got Grealish into the fold...

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    International Prospect CraftyToePoke's Avatar
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    McGuane who's now on loan at Oxford United ?

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    I think this would definitely solve the Johannsson and Crowley issue. If they're talking about letting players like Oscar play for China then it would have to.

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    I'm not sure if I like the sound of this.

    Again, it demonstrates how utterly ridiculous the ruling on Johansson was (and the impact on Crowley). If only the FAI were in a stronger position internally and externally within UEFA and FIFA then maybe we would have been able to force change there. Because it sounds like the Moroccans are doing their damnedest.

    Also, is this the Oscar that was with Chelsea? He has 47 Brazil caps. And he was seeking a switch? Wow.

  9. #7628
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    The PRC is desperate to bulk up their team with foreign imports, so I'd say they were driving a lot of the Oscar discussions.
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

  10. #7629
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olé Olé View Post
    I'm not sure if I like the sound of this.

    Again, it demonstrates how utterly ridiculous the ruling on Johansson was (and the impact on Crowley). If only the FAI were in a stronger position internally and externally within UEFA and FIFA then maybe we would have been able to force change there. Because it sounds like the Moroccans are doing their damnedest.

    Also, is this the Oscar that was with Chelsea? He has 47 Brazil caps. And he was seeking a switch? Wow.
    He said he'd be open to a switch if FIFA relaxed the rules. But even if they did relax them he still wouldn't come close to meeting the new criteria. Munir seems to be the driving case behind it.

    I still don't understand the ramifications fully after reading it. But it would immediately make Crowley and Johansson eligible as far as I know, as well as making Grealish eligible again. I could be wrong, but that's my interpretation.

    Hopefully a journalist clarifies it for us!

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    This is a real can of worms. As they stand, the eligibility rules are already a mess, and for all the claims from FIFA that they want to change them to make them more favourable to smaller countries, it's these countries that will lose out when a player decides he's happy with one or two friendly caps, and it's better for his career/transfer prospects that he plays for an association higher in the rankings. The wording needs to be completely unambiguous - a player can't have been selected for his national side for three years before initiating the change. Not because he refused all call ups, not because he was an unused substitute in these games, he has to have been omitted from all senior squads for a minimum of three years. And, of course there's nothing stopping a manager from selecting a player after two and a half years in the international wilderness, just to end any chance of them changing allegiance.
    Also, the three years feels really short to me. It was the same in rugby for players who wanted to represent another country on residency grounds until recently and was extended to five years. That meant you would definitely miss the next World Cup. A similar length of time in football would make players think twice before beginning the process.
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    There's alot of over-thinking going on here, inventing problems which don't even exist now but which might materialise out of nothing later on.

    I think the proposal to allow players to switch after being capped once at senior competitive level is good move and is more of a fine tuning rather than a rule change. it's a rational progression.
    It's in favour of countries outside the elite and favours dual nationals who have been not been used after being capped once at senior competitive level for one of the big shot countries.


    That is only one of the FIFA statute change proposals
    I haven't read them all of them yet

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetsujin1979 View Post
    Also, the three years feels really short to me. It was the same in rugby for players who wanted to represent another country on residency grounds until recently and was extended to five years. That meant you would definitely miss the next World Cup. A similar length of time in football would make players think twice before beginning the process.
    I've read the whole amendment now so have a bit of understanding.

    It's only 3 years if you moved prior to the age of 10. It's still 5 years if you're over 10 and you can't have moved solely to pursue declaring for that nation. I'd imagine the latter will be down to FIFA to decide. They've actually increased the continuous living period of 2 years to 5 too, so it tightens it even more.

    The ruling is they can now change if
    • Fielded in any "A" international. (So any Nations League, qualifier or friendly)
    • "Held" the nationality of new association when fielded.
    • The player had to be under 21 during their last appearance.
    • Played less than 3 games.
    • Hasn't played in a "final" tournament of the FIFA World Cup or a Confederation Cup (Euros etc.)


    It's not ambiguous at all really. Take Michael Obafemi for example. Would now be eligible for England/Nigeria from November 6 2021 unless any of the following things happen


    • He plays 3 more senior games for Ireland
    • He plays for Ireland after he turns 21
    • He plays for Ireland in the Euros/World Cup.


    It's not as worm can opening as first thought.

    One interesting caveat that relates to Johansson and Crowley is 5.2. All the below is new

    "There is a distinction between holding a nationality and being eligible to obtain a nationality. A playerholds a nationality if, through the operation of a national law, they have:
    • a) automatically received a nationality (e.g. from birth) without being required to undertake anyfurther administrative requirements (e.g. abandoning a separate nationality); or
    • b) acquired a nationality by undertaking a naturalisation process."


    Sound bad for us with them. Seems like our foreign birth register will be our undoing moving forward even with the amendment. So even though grandkids have the right to a passport from birth, they have to complete "further administrative requirements" to get it. It's a grey area that the FAI could and should argue.
    Last edited by ColourfulPeanut; 20/08/2020 at 11:38 AM.

  14. #7633
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    Yep, that's Johansson and Crowley 100% screwed along with a whole host of other granny rulers down the line that would previously have been eligible to play for us.


    Presumably it can't be retrospectively applied to Callum Robinson.


    It's a bit of a disaster all round to be honest. A rule change that is supposedly meant to help smaller nations actually screws Ireland, a smaller nation, over on a number of points


    - a number of players who previously qualified for us through ancestry now ruled ineligible
    - at least one senior international who was confirmed as an Irish international player no longer confirmed for us
    - now difficult, bordering on impossible, for us to confirm any player eligible for any other country in addition to Ireland as an Irish player until they're at least 22 years old.

    EDIT - on fully reading the FIFA document, quite a lot of the above is incorrect, please ignore!
    Last edited by Eirambler; 20/08/2020 at 1:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eirambler View Post
    Yep, that's Johansson and Crowley 100% screwed along with a whole host of other granny rulers down the line that would previously have been eligible to play for us.

    Presumably it can't be retrospectively applied to Callum Robinson.

    It's a bit of a disaster all round to be honest. A rule change that is supposedly meant to help smaller nations actually screws Ireland, a smaller nation, over on a number of points

    - a number of players who previously qualified for us through ancestry now ruled ineligible
    - at least one senior international who was confirmed as an Irish international player no longer confirmed for us
    - now difficult, bordering on impossible, for us to confirm any player eligible for any other country in addition to Ireland as an Irish player until they're at least 22 years old.
    It'd be their 21st Birthday, not their 22nd. Just for clarification! But yes, bad overall.

    We really need to be arguing about the foriegn births thing. It's not part of a naturalisation process. It's literally just telling the country that the child exists.

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  17. #7635
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    I beg to differ in interpretation, IMO. Dan would be eligible for a switch.

    NR. 9 Change of Association
    If the eligible player was under 21 years age when last capped by the first country, there is no need to have already held the nationality of the country he wishes to switch to. Welcome back Dan.

    A dual national player still can only request one switch.
    However a player who requested a switch but not capped, can reverse the switch. This was the case anyway but now it's in writing.


    Nationality acquired via residence is being clarified to allow for migration, "movement of the people".
    Most probably these were already practised by FIFA but are now in writing.

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  19. #7636
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    Ok, interesting, thanks for that.

    So let's take Johansson as a (difficult) example. Played for Luxembourg, tried to switch to Ireland and couldn't.

    Then switched to Sweden. Hasn't represented them yet.

    Could he now switch back to us if he wanted to? Or can he only go back to Luxembourg now?
    Keane O'Shea Given Best Smallbone

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    Quote Originally Posted by geysir View Post
    I beg to differ in interpretation, IMO. Dan would be eligible for a switch.

    NR. 9 Change of Association
    If the eligible player was under 21 years age when last capped by the first country, there is no need to have already held the nationality of the country he wishes to switch to. Welcome back Dan.

    A dual national player still can only request one switch.
    However a player who requested a switch but not capped, can reverse the switch. This was the case anyway but now it's in writing.


    Nationality acquired via residence is being clarified to allow for migration, "movement of the people".
    Most probably these were already practised by FIFA but are now in writing.
    Looks like you could be right!

    9 B
    ii) at the time of being fielded for his first match in an official competition in any kind of football for his current association, he did not hold the nationality of the association which he wishes to represent;Proposal for amendments to the Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes 5
    iii) at the time of being fielded for his last match in an official competition in any kind of football for his current association, he had not turned 21 years old

    This would make Crowley instantly available and Johansson eligible 3 years after his u21 cap for Luxembourg? Or does the 3 years only apply to senior games?

    That second part wasn't the case before no? As in Grealish couldn't play for us soon as he submitted the papers, but he now can theoretically?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eirambler View Post
    Ok, interesting, thanks for that.

    So let's take Johansson as a (difficult) example. Played for Luxembourg, tried to switch to Ireland and couldn't.

    Then switched to Sweden. Hasn't represented them yet.

    Could he now switch back to us if he wanted to? Or can he only go back to Luxembourg now?
    I'm not bothered about Ryan too much, he has chosen his nest of convenience.

    Afaiu, Ryan can only reverse the switch, if uncapped at any level he can switch back to his original country Luxembourg.
    That falls under 9.5.

    To me it looks like he would not be allowed to switch to Ireland. Maybe FIFA are only thinking dual nationals here and not for players like Ryan who is trio national. Maybe we need another new rule for Trio Nationals.
    Last edited by geysir; 20/08/2020 at 12:39 PM.

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  23. #7639
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut View Post
    I've read the whole amendment now so have a bit of understanding.

    It's only 3 years if you moved prior to the age of 10. It's still 5 years if you're over 10 and you can't have moved solely to pursue declaring for that nation. I'd imagine the latter will be down to FIFA to decide. They've actually increased the continuous living period of 2 years to 5 too, so it tightens it even more.

    The ruling is they can now change if
    • Fielded in any "A" international. (So any Nations League, qualifier or friendly)
    • "Held" the nationality of new association when fielded.
    • The player had to be under 21 during their last appearance.
    • Played less than 3 games.
    • Hasn't played in a "final" tournament of the FIFA World Cup or a Confederation Cup (Euros etc.)


    It's not ambiguous at all really. Take Michael Obafemi for example. Would now be eligible for England/Nigeria from November 6 2021 unless any of the following things happen


    • He plays 3 more senior games for Ireland
    • He plays for Ireland after he turns 21
    • He plays for Ireland in the Euros/World Cup.


    It's not as worm can opening as first thought.

    One interesting caveat that relates to Johansson and Crowley is 5.2. All the below is new

    "There is a distinction between holding a nationality and being eligible to obtain a nationality. A playerholds a nationality if, through the operation of a national law, they have:
    • a) automatically received a nationality (e.g. from birth) without being required to undertake anyfurther administrative requirements (e.g. abandoning a separate nationality); or
    • b) acquired a nationality by undertaking a naturalisation process."


    Sound bad for us with them. Seems like our foreign birth register will be our undoing moving forward even with the amendment. So even though grandkids have the right to a passport from birth, they have to complete "further administrative requirements" to get it. It's a grey area that the FAI could and should argue.
    Are u saying someone could play in a full qualifier ie Slovakia and still switch? that sounds ridiculous are u sure?

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    Quote Originally Posted by geysir View Post
    I'm not bothered about Ryan too much, he has chosen his nest of convenience.

    Afaiu, Ryan can only reverse the switch, if uncapped at any level he can switch back to his original country Luxembourg.
    That falls under 9.5.

    To me it looks like he would not be allowed to switch to Ireland. Maybe FIFA are only thinking dual nationals here and not for players like Ryan who is trio national. Maybe we need another new rule for Trio Nationals.
    That's a bit harsh. He wanted to play for Ireland, and was going through the procedures, until the Luxembourg FA stepped in and alerted FIFA to his ineligibility. He was eligible for Sweden, so he's decided to declare for them.
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