Eligibility Rules, Okay

[DannyInvincible]

Isn't it largely a convenient (if lazy) shorthand? The GFA confirms a long-existing situation, rather than creating an entitlement. Feighan must know that, but also probably feels he needs to be emollient towards the IFA, NI fans, Unionist politicans and the Belfast media.

No harm in just making sure, and no reason for him to be so lazy. He's an elected member of Dáil Éireann, after all.

Has Feighan made any specific suggestions (eg, 'guys from NI shouldn't play for the Republic', or with qualification 'if they've already played U-19, U-21 or in a friendly up there'). Or is he just throwing out vague platitudes?

He's been pretty vague, but considering he felt bothered enough to write an article about the matter and assuming he wasn't merely talking baloney for rhetorical effect, it would appear that he would prefer northern Irish nationals to be playing for the IFA or would rather they were limited in some manner, further to the rules as they stand at present, from opting to represent the FAI. As far as he is concerned, there's a problem that needs intervention, careful consideration and protocols to solve it. Considering his popular profile and public position, I’m sure you can appreciate why I feel it worth critiquing and challenging the sentiment of such ignorant rubbish, for fear it was to further misinform and influence other parties or individuals similarly bereft of knowledge on the subject.

Maybe he's more interested in cosying up to his colleagues on the cross-border junket? Also, never underestimate Fine Gael partitionism...

I would never. And the session he was hosting was purportedly about understanding and reconciliation, so I thought he'd be eager to be educated on all perspectives relevant to the discussion.

The way you characterise it is somewhat exaggerated. Nobody's comparing it to a press gang. NI fans are ****ed off that someone can agree to a call up for a latest cap for us one day, then move to your squad the next.

No exaggeration necessary from me. NI fans have been making it very easy for me for years. The whole thing has been a litany of insanity and delusion. It was a pretty clueless-sounding Sammy Douglas who declared himself a fan and used the term "poaching" at the BIPA panel discussion.

An hysterical and innuendo-laden banner also springs to mind. What did it say again?:


"FAI, stop interfering with our kids."

If that wasn't a downright crass and scurrilous means of framing matters and insinuating that something underhand, or indecent even, was going on, I’m not sure what was. As if "kids" were being unduly influenced or manipulated by FAI predators...

Spin-doctor Owen Polley used the phrase "systematic plunder" and the term "raids". Polley spoke of Daniel Kearns having to be "persuaded to defect". Why couldn't he acknowledge that the lad might simply just have wanted to declare for his country? Polley was desperate to shut the whole thing down by trying to feign some concern for the "identity rights" of nationalists through a pretty twisted argument that, more so than anything else, ultimately just exposed his own narrow-minded self-interest and wish to claim nationalists for himself. As if that charlatan had the best interests of nationalists at heart… I’d be fairly confident that many NI fans still possess such extreme views whereby they’d gladly deny northern Irish nationals the fundamental choice to play for Ireland. Worryingly, Polley is obviously one of the more educated fans, yet still harboured such cloaked and crooked intolerance. If I had access to OWC, I’m sure I’d be able to find opinions expressed as bad and much worse. Sure even the head-honcho of the Amalgamation of Official Northern Ireland Supporters Clubs, Gary McAllister, was alleging that youngsters were being abused, intimidated and threatened into playing for the FAI. And then he cowered behind the "breach of confidence" excuse in order to avoid backing up his ridiculous claims before resorting to crude, infantile jibes and disengaging.

The FAI have often been accused of breaching the general rules, of behaving illegally (as far as FIFA’s regulations are concerned) or of having had some special and unfair exemption decreed specifically for them by FIFA, so I don’t think it’s at all inaccurate to portray the hysterical nature of the accusations as I have. Indeed, Trevor Ringland still seemed to possess the belief that the FAI weren't conforming to the rules as they should be applied when he spoke in Croke Park to the BIPA. These types of guys have influence and stature. People listen to them when they speak because of the positions they hold.

I really shouldn’t forget the bat-sh*t crazy "End Footballing Apartheid in Ireland" farce either. I mean, if NI fans really wanted some unity and an end to "apartheid" (apart-hood or the state of being apart) in Ireland or if they truly wanted an ensure there was no automatic imposition of British citizenship upon Irish nationalists in the north, they’re more than welcome to advocate a single all-island team or to vote for Irish nationalist/republican parties intent on ending partition. Just an idea, like… Or maybe those ideas wouldn't actually appeal to them and they're just full of bullsh*t.

And it is actually just our association with whom NI fans seem to have this issue. I was surprised that there were no such howls of disdain and anguish (like Gibson, McClean and Duffy got) when a young IFA player "defected" to the FA a while back. I can't recall his name - I'm sure someone can clarify - but he was mentioned on here and the OWC response was pretty much zilch. Some of the very few posters in a less-than-two-pages-long thread who were actually interested enough to respond even wished him well!

Surely he means effectively all-Unionist fanbase, not players? If so, it's not scaremongering, some exaggeration at worst.

If he was suggesting that northern-born Irish nationals declaring to play for Ireland would lead to that, I think he’s getting his cause and effect mixed up. Don't the teams kind of inherently represent the two respective traditions anyway? And it's not because of the FAI, but more to do with the socio-political reality. I know they run FFA and all that, but can the IFA genuinely or fully represent nationalists who identify with Ireland as a nation? As I posed in one of the pieces I'd written, would a tricolour be welcome in Windsor Park, for example? Not that I'm suggesting it ought to be embraced by NI fans or anything; just pointing out a reality and demonstrating how it's rather insincere for NI fans to demand or expect loyalty from the nationalist community and then accuse then accuse the latter of bigotry when they're naturally not interested. Nationalists in the north already support Ireland en masse and it is for the reason that they broadly and culturally identify with the FAI team that northern-born Irish national players opt to play for the association.

I've suggested some explanation above. Broadly Frank's motive may be mainly to boost his own career and contacts. He's probably cuter than you give credit. You don't need to over-rate his importance, though.

Well, if that’s the case, he should stop playing dumb. And he’s got a higher profile than I, unfortunately.

[Stuttgart88]

I presume Frank never responded to you Danny?

[DannyInvincible]

I presume Frank never responded to you Danny?

Nah, not even an acknowledgment. I e-mailed him and tweeted him around the time of the BIPA and did the same again there at the weekend to alert him to my analysis of what was discussed.

[Gather round]

I can reply even if the Deputy for Roscommon & Leitrim won't.

On mature reflection, I have to concede there is some quality ballix/ mopery in the replies DI quotes above. Particular from 'spin doctor' Polley

As for your old mate McAllister, of course he should back up his allegations. But you have to remember that in a still volatile post-conflict scenario like OWC collusion can't always easily be proved...

PS the Green Party in Norwich has a press spokesman whose real first name is actually Spin(oza)

[DannyInvincible]

I've, at last, written some smaller pieces for Slugger O'Toole after an invitation from Mick Fealty. The first was published today: http://sluggerotoole.com/2015/04/13/...tional-rights/

There are two more to come. It's certainly got NI fans commenting anyway. I'm a quick typer, but I don't think I can keep up with this onslaught. Help!?

[gastric]

I've, at last, written some smaller pieces for Slugger O'Toole after an invitation from Mick Fealty. The first was published today: http://sluggerotoole.com/2015/04/13/...tional-rights/

There are two more to come. It's certainly got NI fans commenting anyway. I'm a quick typer, but I don't think I can keep up with this onslaught. Help!?

You started this Danny, so live with it! At least it seems to be a mature discussion.

[Wolfman]

http://www.the42.ie/10-best-players-...facebook_short

[tetsujin1979]

http://www.the42.ie/10-best-players-...facebook_short

According to Wikipedia, Walcott is the youngest player to make his debut for England, not Rooney

[DannyInvincible]

http://www.the42.ie/10-best-players-...facebook_short

I was never aware Gazza was eligible.

Steve Bruce claimed he was reluctant to declare for Ireland on account of the limit on "foreign" players imposed by the Premier League (Football League?) at the time, as far as I know. He claimed it would have caused problems with Unites and would have impacted negatively upon his club career. I dunno if that adds up though. Even if he had declared for Ireland, he'd still have been a non-foreign British national at United, as far as the rules at the time were concerned, no? Was the international team for whom you played relevant in ascertaining your foreign-or-not status. My own suspicion is that he was rendered ineligible on account of his under-age caps with England.

Rooney's grandmother is from Dublin, according to this: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-26359427.html

AB tells me otherwise though; that he was possibly fifth-gen, according to scousers he knows.

Indeed, this seems consistent with the reference to Patricia Fitzsimmons (Rooney's supposed-Dublin grandmother) here: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/f...-vogts-2360133

Says she was born in Liverpool.

And David McWilliams wrote about her too here: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/co...-26733733.html

"I sat in the back of a pub with Rooney's granny, Patricia Fitzsimons, listening to stories about these people -- our people -- and their love of, and affinity for, Ireland. Rooney's grandparents went to Bray for their honeymoon and constantly referred to themselves as Irish."

That'd suggest she wasn't born in Ireland, wouldn't it? It would surely only be notable in this context that they refer to themselves as Irish if they weren't actually born in Ireland.

I always remember Rooney was eligible for us in the Football/Championship Manager series of games, however, and their research has always been pretty solid. It's even used as a professional database by clubs now. That's not to say they're immune from making the odd mistake though.

[Stuttgart88]

I can't wait to see the Danny Collins movie with Al Pacino. Who'd have thought Hollywood and the great actor himself would take such an interest in the player eligibility debate and its key authority in the blogosphere?

Who's going to play Gather Round?

[TrapAPony]

I can't wait to see the Danny Collins movie with Al Pacino. Who'd have thought Hollywood and the great actor himself would take such an interest in the player eligibility debate and its key authority in the blogosphere?

Who's going to play Gather Round?

Verne Troyer

[DeLorean]

Stephen Rea the bookies early favourite.

[Gather round]

Ha ha. Be careful or one of you comics will be sleeping wid da fishes...

My cousin's brother in law is Tom Hagen from Holywood, believe it or not.

[Stuttgart88]

Be afraid...

[tetsujin1979]

Be afraid...

Wrong movie

[DannyInvincible]

Michael O'Neill says he has a grievance with the FAI and makes some vague/stupid comments in relation to the (still ongoing?) eligibility dispute: http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3942/...en-ifa-and-fai

O'Neill, who has been manager of Northern Ireland since December 2011, says that some players have made the decision to switch "and their international careers have gone nowhere" adding that the two associations on the island of Ireland should come to an agreement on the matter "over and above" the current Fifa eligibility rules.

"This is my grievance with the FAI. There are some of our young lads who have made that decision and their international careers have gone nowhere," O'Neill told the Sunday Times.

"Why put them in that position? For the ones who are playing it is great, but what about Eunan O'Kane? It is a big decision to make at underage level knowing that you can't go back.

"There should be an agreement between the associations over and above the Fifa rule, but that doesn't exist.

"I don't think the Republic have benefited tremendously from the rule. Darron Gibson, James McClean and Marc Wilson. That's pretty much it. The other players have fallen by the wayside and their international careers have been damaged because of that."

Quotes taken from a piece by Paul Rowan here.

Good examination of why the comments are nonsensical here: http://www.everthecynic.com/2015/06/...nd-grievances/

...

Understandably, there is a lingering resentment attached to the matter. Somewhat surprisingly though, O’Neill, who has generally been quite diplomatic with regard to the eligibility issue, went on to air what he termed as his “grievance” with the FAI, insinuating that they were somehow “damaging” the careers of certain Northern Ireland-born footballers by selecting them at under-age level. He questioned why the FAI was “[putting players] in that position” as if to suggest the players had no part to play in the entire affair whatsoever, as if they didn’t make the decision themselves, of their own accord.

...

Ostensibly, O’Neill is merely expressing concern for the careers of young Northern Ireland-born footballers, but the truth is that he is ultimately looking out for his own interests as manager of the Northern Ireland team and unfairly using players such as Eunan O’Kane as a sort of international cautionary tale to dissuade potential defectors in the process. These guys decided NOT to play for us and look how it turned out for THEM!

It is disingenuous and insulting to those young players who have made the decision to declare for the FAI. In any case, who is to say that 24-year-old O’Kane will never taste senior international football? He is relatively young and part of a team that recently earned promotion to the Premier League. As in life, nothing is guaranteed in football, so who knows what the future holds for O’Kane or, for that matter, anyone?

...

[DannyInvincible]

I've not actually read the entire piece by Paul Rowan above as it's behind a paywall, but I understand it suggests Michael Duffy (formerly of Derry and now at Celtic) is considering a switch to the FAI. If he was to go through with it, he'd be the first player to switch since McClean/under O'Neill's management.

If Michael O'Neill is so concerned for the careers of switching players, why doesn't he impose a moral expectation upon himself to select out-of-favour Alex Bruce?

[Charlie Darwin]

What about Eunan O'Kane?

[Stuttgart88]

The first part of his first name and the first part of his surname, when put together, gives EunOK. Does he lack balls?

[tetsujin1979]

You're thinking about this too much.