Eligibility Rules, Okay

[ArdeeBhoy]

Well exactly, but I think we might just have covered that in numerous threads 'passim'.

[BonnieShels]

Just saying...

[ArdeeBhoy]

To be fair to all concerned, it's all been well covered already. Though I'm sure if you wish to revisit, sure you'll find some takers?

[ifk101]

In fact, is Martin even employed by the FAI?

Let's just say he is known to scout for the FAI.

Whether the FAI made the first approach to Ferguson is unclear. It's likely that they were tipped of Ferguson's interest in playing for us and followed up on that with the player himself. This surely happened in the case of Adam Barton and we know happened in the case of Shane Duffy. There did/ does exist an understanding between the FAI and IFA that the FAI will not make the first move in approaching players that can be perceived in some quarters as IFA players. Under this agreement it is up to the player to initiate his desire to play for the FAI. However with the CAS ruling, and it reaffirmation of the application of the eligibility statutes, there isn't any compelling reason for the FAI to comply with this given the IFA brought them to court on the issue of selecting NI born Irish nationals for its representative sides. In light of this, it is possible that the FAI made the first approach in relation to Ferguson and that Ferguson prior to this approach had no intention of switching. However given certain media outlets willing to highlight the possibility of Ferguson switching to the FAI, the player himself might now feel he has no other choice than to switch as his loyalty to the IFA's cause is in question and will continue to be so.

[Not Brazil]

It would be interesting to see what the FAI would do should a young Protestant sensation come through the NI ranks. I suppose Jonny Evans was the last one?

I take grave offence at this comment.

To describe Evans as a "sensation" is absolutely scandoulous.

[Not Brazil]

Or perhaps we should listen to what the players say.

Marc Wilson “It’s the best honour you can get to represent your country – it’s always been a dream of mine to play for Ireland”

Darron Gibson “It was unbelievable you know, making the debut for your country. Everyone from Derry wants to play for Ireland. I grew up supporting Ireland, so it was a natural choice for me”

Shane Duffy "I’ve always supported the Republic since I was a young kid, It’s a dream come true for me "

That's great - I'm sure it is a great honour for these boys.

I'm merely suggesting that the IFA help similarly minded players with "childhood dreams" of playing for the Republic make that dream come true for them - as early in their career as possible, thus freeing up Northern Ireland shirts for those players who's childhood dream it is to play for Northern Ireland.

[BonnieShels]

But the logistics of playing underage soccer would dictate otherwise. The ifa link in with schools. I can't see how some lad from Dungannon who would-be of a nationalist bent and has had as a dream to one day play for Ireland being able to join the FAI underage set-up until he's old enough to enable him to not have to rely on the parents for trips south etc. And that's assuming he's not in an English academy at that stage.
The FAI could start setting up academies in the six if you would rather not have ni jersies 'wasted' on prospective southerners?

[Not Brazil]

But the logistics of playing underage soccer would dictate otherwise. The ifa link in with schools. I can't see how some lad from Dungannon who would-be of a nationalist bent and has had as a dream to one day play for Ireland being able to join the FAI underage set-up until he's old enough to enable him to not have to rely on the parents for trips south etc. And that's assuming he's not in an English academy at that stage.
The FAI could start setting up academies in the six if you would rather not have ni jersies 'wasted' on prospective southerners?

The FAI can arrange their travel to camps etc in the South.

I'm sure parents who want their kids to play for the South would have few issues with travelling a few extra miles to assist their kid realising their childhood dream.

The FAI could set up camps in Dundalk and Letterkenny, for example, that would facilitate Northern Irish born kids - if they haven't already.

The IFA should continue their work with schools - schoolboy football is a different kettle of fish. Anyone wishing to attend IFA run school based events should be free to continue to do so.

If the player is at an English academy, there's no problem - it's as easy to get to the Republic as it is Northern Ireland from the UK.

Beyond schoolboy football, Northern Ireland jersies should be for those kids who harbour childhood dreams to play for Northern Ireland, and mainland born British Citizens who are eligible (and want) to play for Northern Ireland, provided, of course, they meet the requirements of Article 16.

Any Northern Irish kid who tries his luck with the FAI, and finds, subsequently, that he wants to play for Northern Ireland (for whatever reason) could approach the IFA and make his intentions (and availability for selection) clear - I'm sure, if good enough, they'd be most welcome.

[OMTY]

What's the story with Caolan Lavery? The IFA robbed him from the Canucks it? I see Spurs are linked to a half a mill bid for him.I see Spurs are linked to a half a mill bid for him. Is he qualified for us too?

[BonnieShels]

Depends on the parents.

[DannyInvincible]

Let's just say he is known to scout for the FAI.

Whether the FAI made the first approach to Ferguson is unclear. It's likely that they were tipped of Ferguson's interest in playing for us and followed up on that with the player himself. This surely happened in the case of Adam Barton and we know happened in the case of Shane Duffy. There did/ does exist an understanding between the FAI and IFA that the FAI will not make the first move in approaching players that can be perceived in some quarters as IFA players. Under this agreement it is up to the player to initiate his desire to play for the FAI. However with the CAS ruling, and it reaffirmation of the application of the eligibility statutes, there isn't any compelling reason for the FAI to comply with this given the IFA brought them to court on the issue of selecting NI born Irish nationals for its representative sides. In light of this, it is possible that the FAI made the first approach in relation to Ferguson and that Ferguson prior to this approach had no intention of switching. However given certain media outlets willing to highlight the possibility of Ferguson switching to the FAI, the player himself might now feel he has no other choice than to switch as his loyalty to the IFA's cause is in question and will continue to be so.

I'm aware that in the case of Duffy, Sean Caffrey made a point of not contacting the player in spite of obvious interest from the player; Duffy attended an FAI training camp and there was plenty of talk on here, other forums via family members (ToffeeTalk, for example) and the local media that he'd rather be playing for Ireland. It wasn't mere rumour either. Furthermore, he even has a father from Letterkenny, yet the FAI were only willing to engage once Duffy initiated contact to declare his intentions officially, which, whilst frustrating to observe as NI continued calling the player into squads, demonstrated how sensitive the FAI were with the issue of selecting northern-born players. I don't think this policy difference, if you will, was ever made known to Duffy who, at the time, probably felt a little confused as to why the onus would be on him as distinct from other Irish players with whom the FAI would have no problem contacting first.

Of course, you're entirely correct. It would be reasonable to view the IFA taking the FAI to CAS as a breach of what had been previously agreed between the two associations. I suppose I was just trying to dispel notions that the FAI are pursuing some sectarian selection policy because it's both ludicrous and annoying, being entirely without foundation, yet appears to be such a prevalent belief within the NI support-base.

I also agree with your final point. I wonder would NI fans be happy to see him line out for them in future knowing he is still in the process of considering a switch. Whether he contacted the FAI, had someone do it on his behalf or failed to shun FAI contact, it all clearly demonstrates that he is not entirely dedicated to their cause.

[DannyInvincible]

What's the story with Caolan Lavery? The IFA robbed him from the Canucks it? I see Spurs are linked to a half a mill bid for him.I see Spurs are linked to a half a mill bid for him. Is he qualified for us too?

To the best of my knowledge, anyone with parental or grandparental roots from the island of Ireland qualifies to play for us, so yes. Whether or not the parents or grandparents possess(ed) Irish passports in official acknowledgement of Irish nationality, I don't believe it's necessary.

[DannyInvincible]

The FAI can arrange their travel to camps etc in the South.

I'm sure parents who want their kids to play for the South would have few issues with travelling a few extra miles to assist their kid realising their childhood dream.

The FAI could set up camps in Dundalk and Letterkenny, for example, that would facilitate Northern Irish born kids - if they haven't already.

The IFA should continue their work with schools - schoolboy football is a different kettle of fish. Anyone wishing to attend IFA run school based events should be free to continue to do so.

If the player is at an English academy, there's no problem - it's as easy to get to the Republic as it is Northern Ireland from the UK.

Beyond schoolboy football, Northern Ireland jersies should be for those kids who harbour childhood dreams to play for Northern Ireland, and mainland born British Citizens who are eligible (and want) to play for Northern Ireland, provided, of course, they meet the requirements of Article 16.

Any Northern Irish kid who tries his luck with the FAI, and finds, subsequently, that he wants to play for Northern Ireland (for whatever reason) could approach the IFA and make his intentions (and availability for selection) clear - I'm sure, if good enough, they'd be most welcome.

That's all well and good, although I've noticed that the tendency has been for northern-born players playing for Derry City - Kevin Deery, Barry Molloy, Marc Mukendi, et cetera - to start out in the under-age squads of the FAI, presumably because they're playing within the FAI's system and the club has formal links to the organisation in Dublin. Meanwhile, for other players from a nationalist background who might have grown up supporting Ireland but played at youth level within the northern system - Shane Duffy (Foyle Harps of the Derry and District League) or Darron Gibson (Institute) - it's the IFA with their formal links and scouting network who will have the first look-in, if you will. Once a young lad is called up by the IFA, progresses through the age categories and forms bonds with coaches, staff and team-mates, it complicates matters as, although he might always have possessed a childhood dream to play for Ireland, he now finds himself, due to what might have been a matter of convenience - geographically, seeming like "the right thing to do" or whatever - and pride at being offered to play a bit of international football, he'll naturally feel like he's letting his coaches and team-mates down if, further down the line, he wishes to pursue what has always been his personal dream. Is a 16 or 17-year-old realistically going to reject what he will primarily perceive as some sort of formal acknowledgement of his abilities? He'll jump at the chance. This is the dilemma Shane Duffy faced and is probably what Shane Ferguson is going through right now.

Mind you, Wikipedia tells me that Shane Ferguson played youth football with Derry City from 2001 to 2007, when he moved to Newcastle and received a call-up into the NI under-17 squad. Can anyone confirm this to be true? Martin O'Neill is also alleged by Wikipedia to have played youth football with Derry City, for example, but I'm not aware that this is true either.

[Predator]

Mind you, Wikipedia tells me that Shane Ferguson played youth football with Derry City from 2001 to 2007, when he moved to Newcastle and received a call-up into the NI under-17 squad. Can anyone confirm this to be true? Martin O'Neill is also alleged by Wikipedia to have played youth football with Derry City, for example, but I'm not aware that this is true either.

I doubt that it is true. I'm nearly 100% sure that Ferguson was part of the Maiden City Academy, which is, I think, the brainchild of Paul Kee and John Cunningham (who were both with Institute). Considering Ferguson's a country lad, having gone to school at St. Mary's Limavady, travelling to the Brandywell would be a long enough trip.

Link

Interestingly, Gibson was also a part of the academy.

[co. down green]

Darron Gibson and Shane Ferguson were both with the Maiden City Academy.

Ferguson is also eligible to play for Scotland via his mother

[Not Brazil]

,

Meanwhile, for other players from a nationalist background who might have grown up supporting Ireland but played at youth level within the northern system - Shane Duffy (Foyle Harps of the Derry and District League) or Darron Gibson (Institute) - it's the IFA with their formal links and scouting network who will have the first look-in, if you will. Once a young lad is called up by the IFA, progresses through the age categories and forms bonds with coaches, staff and team-mates, it complicates matters as, although he might always have possessed a childhood dream to play for Ireland, he now finds himself, due to what might have been a matter of convenience - geographically, seeming like "the right thing to do" or whatever - and pride at being offered to play a bit of international football, he'll naturally feel like he's letting his coaches and team-mates down if, further down the line, he wishes to pursue what has always been his personal dream. Is a 16 or 17-year-old realistically going to reject what he will primarily perceive as some sort of formal acknowledgement of his abilities? He'll jump at the chance.

As I alluded to, no issues with the 16 or 17 year olds.

Once the player who holds childhood dreams of playing for the South leaves the IFA schoolboy setup, he should approach the FAI and advise them of his childhood dream and desire to play for the South's representative teams.

I'm sure that there'll be a FAI camp somewhere within the 26 counties, not too inconvenient to anywhere in Northern Ireland, to facilitate this desire.

That'll free up Northern Ireland jersies for post school kids who's childhood dream is it to play for Northern Ireland.

[CraftyToePoke]

Any Northern Irish kid who tries his luck with the FAI, and finds, subsequently, that he wants to play for Northern Ireland (for whatever reason) could approach the IFA and make his intentions (and availability for selection) clear - I'm sure, if good enough, they'd be most welcome.

Do you reckon? With the strength of feeling presently being expressed elsewhere regarding this I would doubt it. Particularly if the return to NI colours was due to not making the cut in FAI sides.

[Not Brazil]

Do you reckon? With the strength of feeling presently being expressed elsewhere regarding this I would doubt it. Particularly if the return to NI colours was due to not making the cut in FAI sides.

Wouldn't envisage too many problems - Kane & O'Connor were welcomed back by NI fans.

[DannyInvincible]

I doubt that it is true. I'm nearly 100% sure that Ferguson was part of the Maiden City Academy, which is, I think, the brainchild of Paul Kee and John Cunningham (who were both with Institute). Considering Ferguson's a country lad, having gone to school at St. Mary's Limavady, travelling to the Brandywell would be a long enough trip.

Link

If the IFA really cared about young Derry players, surely they'd equip them with personal jersey and shorts sizes as opposed to a standard XXL.

[co. down green]

Wouldn't envisage too many problems - Kane & O'Connor were welcomed back by NI fans.

Thanks for that