Can we just have a united world team? No place for politics in football.
Let's just all have sex.
Just had an interesting exchange of ideas with Gary McAllister on Twitter there, although I'm left slightly puzzled by some of his accusatory insinuations.
Originally Posted by Me
... And so he left it at that. He's being intentionally enigmatic but suggestive at the same time. I take him to be implying that players have suffered abuse, intimidation and threats to their wellbeing for opting to play for NI/failing to declare for the FAI. Sounds outrageous and surely the authorities would have been alerted to such criminal behaviour if true. If something illegal is going on, the authorities are there to assist. No-one will advocate threats.
Anyhow, players are still free agents at the end of the day and entitled to make decisions of their own volition. They must take responsibility for their own choices even if subjected to influence. Subjection to influence is an everyday aspect of life, but it doesn't absolve us of personal responsibility. "But I'm easily influenced!", never cut it in court. Most players expressly declare their satisfaction with switching besides. They often say it's a step towards realising a long-held personal dream.
Gary's one to talk anyway; he'd earlier been promoting the encouragement of players to play for NI. For him, it's pressure, abuse, manipulation and intimidation when influence spires from the nationalist community, but it's mild or benevolent encouragement when it spires from NI enthusiasts and the unionist community. What stinking double standards.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 14/01/2012 at 7:36 AM.
You should change his name to Gary. Some might think that he is 'mac' over on OWC.
Done.
Good work Danny! You certainly have tried to be fair and rational in your questions, but that paranoia which we all feel exists among many NI fans is evident in his responses. What hope is there to discuss this issue constructively with such individuals. This thread will go on forever and ever as because of such individuals and their beliefs, many NI born players will continue to associate more closely with us rather than with them.
McAllister is keen to stress that "it isn't over" and that "you won't grind us down!".
McAllister wants the rules to be changed to suit his fantasy version of events. Like so many other deluded souls, he believes that the FAI have a (probably sectarian) policy which is being pursued and they owe the IFA something, considering that these players are "theirs". The effect of Irish nationality law does not sit well with him, nor does the principle of individual choice. As geysir would say, these nordies shouldn't forget who owns them.
He disingenuously talks of how they shouldn't prevent a player from representing the FAI if that is their wish, but then proceeds to lobby for and encourage an agreement, or clause which would, in effect, be a preventative measure, instigated by and for the IFA and NI fans.
Interestingly, he suggests that a possible agreement would see that the FAI did not select a player until after a period of 2 years has passed from when they last played for NI, because "2 years allows a reasonable period to pass whereby a player could then be considered to be 'inactive' within an association.". Entertaining the notion ever so briefly, 2 years appears to be quite lengthy, when you consider the span of the average career, not to mention completely arbitrary. Why not 1 year, or 6 months? No, these players must suffer for their sins.
It's all so pie-in-the-sky, but it is worrying that a man such as McAllister can have a strong influence on the thinking of a fan base and the IFA. That's not to say that FIFA will suddenly side with irrationality, but it is often the case that the squeaky wheel gets the oil.
End Apartheid Now! One Team in Ireland!
There is a tackle by Paul at about 1 minute 50 seconds that is truly unbelievable. In a very tricky situation he wins the ball against two Italians (and actually gets a free)
Paul McGrath has been the best performer in the Irish jersey bar none.
I do remember Bobby Robson been asked if there was one player playing in England that he would pick and he said Paul McGrath. Who could argue with that.
A player is technically inactive internationally as soon as he is no longer part of a particular squad. When there is no current squad, nothing can be known for certain beyond speculation. There is no current Ireland squad, for example; therefore it would be futile/meaningless trying to decipher exactly which Irish players are "active" and which are "inactive" or which players for whom the association has or has no future plans.
For the sake of pointing out how arbitrary and senseless this is, how many years was Glen Whelan inactive after representing our under-21s before playing for our 'B' team and then becoming a senior team regular? More than two, I think, but he still came to be of use to the FAI after those two years had passed. If such a dichotomy was to be invoked in the sense McAllister intends, then how could Whelan have been considered "inactive" when he was still to prove of future use to the FAI? As I've said before, a player has no obligation to an association just as an association has no obligation to keep selecting any player. I don't know why this concept is so difficult to grasp.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 14/01/2012 at 9:31 AM.
It's a classic stunt, make the accusation of abuse and intimidation but refuse to back it up, pleading breach of confidence.
McDowell, ex-minister of justice, was very good at that.
But there are plenty of morons who swallow that type of guff.
I say, Gary should go on the airwaves every morning, he singlehandedly does more damage to the IFA's cause than the rest put together.
The IFA have more sense, they hire Gerry Armstrong to press their argument in public. However, whatever ground gained for the IFA position by the reasonable and ever cheerful Gerry, vanishes when the microphone is handed over to the OWC fans' reps who go bleating on about defections, intimidation and the other country.
Can you twitter-check if Clerkin has any evidence of aggressive approach made to 16/17 years olds as he claimed on the newstalk discussion?
Last edited by geysir; 14/01/2012 at 12:37 PM.
And then the Qatari's start paying off a load of Brazilian youths who won't make the Brazilian national team.
I'm happy with how it is even if those that are most vocal about perceived injustices' are the very ones that don't understand or are not willing to entertain the concept of nationality not being contiguous with place of birth or citizenship.
As quoted by Daniel O'Connell when referring to the Duke of Wellington, "The poor old Duke! What shall I say of him? To be sure he was born in Ireland, but being born in a stable does not make a man a horse."
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
I think McAllister does not realise the disservice his is doing to his "cause". His above exchanges with Danny, show that his standpoint on this issue is so entrenched, so militant and so closed minded to any sort of rational debate, that instead of encouraging nationalists, all he is doing is getting their backs up.
I really think that we should create some sort of group on here, equivalent to Aonisc yet without the widely misinformed opinions, whereby Danny is the spokesman for rational and cogent debate on the issue, so that when McAllister is polluting the airwaves with his BS, we have someone to put him straight on his ignorance of the facts. He currently has free reign in the media without ever really being challenged coherently on the issue.
Gmac doesn't have one of me!
Otherwise it would start to feel like a Springfield v Shelbyville scenario. Obviously we are Springfield. I don't have any attractive cousins!
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrCYX5lxVQo
No response to that yet. So, not up for debate "any time", after all, but only when it suits him.
It's an idea alright. Naturally, he initially attempted to dismiss me as "some random blogger". I am indeed just an interested fan rather than your conventional "expert" of great repute, but I think I know what I'm talking about on this issue at least and the reality is that a legitimate point is a legitimate point no matter where its origin. Having a group or representative organisation as support might give more sense of authority and validity as that's just how people think. They'll listen less to some unknown operating independently. Mind you, my public speaking abilities are like the criminal evil twin of my writing abilities.
NB; you know McAllister personally, don't you? You should have a word, or have you tried without success? He's obviously a passionate guy but our last series of exchanges were getting embarrassing. After completely misrepresenting my position by accusing me of "defending the indefensible" and "disregarding community relations" (community relations aren't about denying players expression of their identity), he started referring to a supposed "single-identity South" (in contrast to "the cross-community North"), as if the FAI team/country of Ireland (?) is one big all-boys Catholic club. The reason we don't know what religion our players are is because one's religion is not a matter of public note in Ireland; nobody cares. Next thing, he's telling other Twitter users to ignore me before making jibes so childish and crude that he's since deleted that particular Tweet. I couldn't care less what he calls me/accuses me of but it's a poor show when the press officer/chairman of the AoNISC would rather insult, mock and blemish your character than approach things sensibly and engage in a constructive debate.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 14/01/2012 at 5:18 PM.
How embarrassing. Keep a record of the tweets, they'll be useful at some point, if only to highlight the absolute idiocy of the people representing NI supporters in the north.
Ou-est le Centre George Pompidou?
I know a few NI supporters who are members of clubs associated with his association who also think he's seriously embarrassing. He seems a bit thick to be honest and his tweets show him to be utterly clueless & out of his depth. Although perhaps he's what their supporters want!!!!
I may not agree with Not Brazil or Gather Round on many issues here, but they would be a vast improvement on yer man in charge at the moment.
And where are they at the moment? Ealing Green has stopped writing his essays and the other two have stopped arguing. It is not normal to have consensus on here. Come back I miss you!
According to our Rotund 'friend', that's NB?!
And nothing to do with GMcA being 'fair', that's the tip of the Paranoia Iceberg...
Last edited by ArdeeBhoy; 14/01/2012 at 11:54 PM.
That's why I suggested changing the, er, name.
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