Eligibility Rules, Okay

[BonnieShels]

I guess that rules out Danny.

But Charlie is our brevity-meister. I say we send him.

Urgh I like Slugger, and Mick Fealty, but they're as clueless on this issue as just about everybody else (cept us know-it-all's).

They are but in the sense that they moderate the discussion which to be honest is a new experience for me on the issue. Bar this place of enlightenment of course.

[geysir]

Didn't one of them on Slugger recognize that Danny's blog was the best single authoritative essay on the eligibility issue?

Mark Davenport wrote in his piece on the BBC site

'Back in November 2007, the FAI accepted a FIFA proposal that the rule should work both ways, but the IFA rejected the suggestion. The IFA's logic was that there would not be a queue of, say, Cork or Dublin born players eager to play for Northern Ireland, so the idea was not worth pursuing.'

IFA's logic? that would be a generous way to describe the IFA's thought process.
But I do not agree that this was entirely or a even a major part of the IFA's thinking on the matter then.
The IFA thought they were right and still believed at that late stage that FIFA would come to their senses and realise that as well.
The principle (however misguided) was important. A perception of losing face by accepting that particular compromise was also important.
Partly was also, a difficulty to accept that an Irish national born in the 26 counties could identify enough (or even had the right to) with the northern 6 counties, in order to play for them, over and above a tenuous blood connected player, born outside the island of Ireland, who the IFA regard as Northern Irish guaranteed, through and through.

[DannyInvincible]

I guess that rules out Danny.

I fear I'd spend longer on attempting to whittle my point down to 140 characters or less than I would on most of my posts on here.

[Irwin3]

The Court of Arbitration of Sport (CAS) has turned down Namibia's bid to claim a place at the Africa Cup of Nations.
The decision means Burkina Faso retain their place at the tournament, which starts on 21 January.
Namibia said the Burkinabe used an ineligible player in qualifying and as a result they should go to the finals.
Their appeals to Caf over the eligibility of Herve Zengue were turned down twice, leading them to take their case to the Court of Arbitration.
CAS did not reveal the reasons for its decision, but said in a statement that Zengue, who was born in Cameroon but is married to a Burkinabe "took residency in Burkina Faso in 1994".

It went on to say that he was given Burkinabe nationality in 2006 and received a 5-year passport in March 2011.
He appeared in both qualifying matches that Burkina Faso played against Namibia in the build up to this month's tournament, hence Namibia's complaint.
The case was fast-tracked by CAS because a place at Equatorial Guinea and Gabon 2012 hinged on the result.
The Burkinabe can now continue to prepare for the tournament, where they will face Ivory Coast, Angola and Sudan in Group B of the tournament.
They played out a 0-0 draw against co-hosts Gabon in Bitam on Monday.

Looks like he was eligible all along...

[geysir]

Yep, 5 years residency means he was eligible all along, so just the question remains that Zenque wasn't cleared to play for BF by FIFA at the time of their game with Namibia, he had only received his 5 year passport the day before the game.
It appears CAS upheld CAF reasons for not allowing the objection in the first place because Namibia didn't present it, in person, in duplicate, on a tuesday morning at 5.13am.


edit, there's other info out about Zenque that he's been resident in BF since 1994, got a nationality certificate in 2006 and a 5 year passport the day before the first game with BF.
Namibia's protest only began the day before the second game, 2 months after the first game.

Namibia's Ollie Byrne must be just a shadow of the real thing.

[Irwin3]

Yep, 5 years residency means he was eligible all along, so just the question remains that Zenque wasn't cleared to play for BF by FIFA at the time of their game with Namibia, he had only received his 5 year passport the day before the game.
It appears CAS upheld CAF reasons for not allowing the objection in the first place because Namibia didn't present it, in person, in duplicate, on a tuesday morning at 5.13am.

Interesting. Is the punishment the same for fielding an ineligible player as for fielding an eligible player who hasn't received FIFA clearance? Does every player need clearance or just those who get a new nationality? For me, if the player is eligible then it should be a slap on the wrist/don't do it again type punishment.

[geysir]

The punishment is lose the game 3-0 for fielding an ineligible player and that's regardless of any official protest filed by the other team.

You'd think that a player has to be cleared by FIFA in order to eligible. But maybe seeing as Zenque hadn't played for any other nation and was a certified national for 15 years, it was okay for BF to register him in the team sheet, the same as any other BF player.
If Trap calls in a late replacement for his first cap, before an international, I suppose the player doesn't need to be cleared by FIFA in order to take his place on the pitch, He just has to present his passport to the match officials before the game.

[geysir]

I note for a Euro qual game, the rules are

1. Each association must provide the UEFA administration with a list of 23 players(surname, first name and date of birth) as well as the name and date of birth of thehead coach, mentioning his coaching qualification. This list must be in possessionof the UEFA administration at least four full days before each qualifyingcompetition match is played.
2. 17.03 This list is provisional and amendments are allowed until the pre-match organisational meeting during which the final list of 23 players must be confirmedto the UEFA match delegate. For the match sheets paragraphs 14.04 to 14.11apply respectively.

[DannyInvincible]

I've been encouraging Gary McAllister to engage on Twitter, but with little success. It appears he'd rather throw insults and unfounded accusations around than even contemplate taking his head out of the sand.

Malachy Clerkin, on the other hand, is up for a debate any time:

Some of the posters on foot.ie took leaps and liberities with what I was saying but I don't mind. Happy to debate any time

[Olé Olé]

I've been encouraging Gary McAllister to engage on Twitter, but with little success. It appears he'd rather throw insults and unfounded accusations around than even contemplate taking his head out of the sand.

Malachy Clerkin, on the other hand, is up for a debate any time:

I'm not on twitter, but I'd like for Clerkin to justify his description of the FAI's approach as aggressive.

Have you listened to the piece yet Danny?

[geysir]

I am absolutely confident that I am excluded from that 'Some of the posters took leaps and liberities',
but I can't say the same for you Danny.

Us Monaghan men have a soul connection.

[DannyInvincible]

I'm not on twitter, but I'd like for Clerkin to justify his description of the FAI's approach as aggressive.

Have you listened to the piece yet Danny?

I have indeed. Had listened to it all by the time I got round to posting this: http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligib...=1#post1564500

I'll fire him off another tweet or two.

[DannyInvincible]

... Or five even.

[The Fly]

... Or five even.

What did I tell you about stalking.

[DannyInvincible]

Just came across this tweet by Paul McGrath in response to Joey Barton: https://twitter.com/#!/Paulmcgrath5/...98523914989569

I'd never known Bobby Robson had asked McGrath to play for England.

[BonnieShels]

Just came across this tweet by Paul McGrath in response to Joey Barton: https://twitter.com/#!/Paulmcgrath5/...98523914989569

I'd never known Bobby Robson had asked McGrath to play for England.

Imagine...

http://video.ireland.com/video/iLyROoaf8UUL.html

This may never have happened...

[geysir]

The Newstalk podcast Sat 7th Jan is available here for a listen.
Fast forward to 34.30, when the discussion turn to James McClean.

The centre of what Clerkin discusses is that he repeatedly states that the FAI aggressively go after young (impressionable) Nordies.
And the aggressive approach is the issue which is causing him some grief, not the players who identify themselves with the FAI from their own volition.
Quite frankly this doesn't hold water.
One could hold the opinion that the FAI aggressively or rather imo, doggedly stood their ground for years in the face of IFA protests, to defend the FAI's right to select northern born nationals. But where are the indications that the FAI aggressively pursue young northerners to declare for the FAI?
It appears Clerkin just accepts, hook line and sinker, that the FAI have an aggressive approach to pursuing players.

I would ask Clerkin to provide information to support his claim of this aggressive FAI approach.
IMO, he is confusing two different issues, the FAI's staunch efforts to maintain their FIFA constituted rights and assumes they are also aggressively pursuing young northern nationals.

[Predator]

What's all this "we've matured as a nation" guff? There's not much worse than self-indulgent back-slapping.

[geysir]

Clerkin didn't come out with that newstalk nation shíte, but agreed totally with the idea.

I'll give Clerkin a chance to come clean
Present, as i grip him by collar one piece of evidence about this so called aggressive approach by the FAI to get players to declare?
Alluding to a (FAI begrudged) Brian Kerr opinion, is not evidence.
Media reports speculating about who might declare, is not evidence of the FAI pursuing anybody aggressively.

What 16 or 17 year old have been pursued aggressively by the FAI?
And what on earth defines an aggressive approach in your opinion?

[tricky_colour]

Personally I feel we should scrap the eligibility rules altogether and let players play for whichever country they like
regardless of birth place or nationality.

Initially it sounds like a mad idea, but the more you think about it the more you realise it is the right way to go.