Jesus wept.Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Why Jaysus??
As in an explanation would be good.
Last edited by ArdeeBhoy; 02/12/2011 at 9:59 PM. Reason: Responding to strange post above.
It's quite a paradox that the people who most want a United Ireland are the people who dislike, even loathe, 'Northern Ireland' the most. Very evident in this debate here. The impression which comes across forcefully is that the 'two tribes/North & South' partition looks copper fastened for ever.
Naw, don't agree with that at all.
Give it 200 years...
Gerry, Marty and the boys were a tad out with the 2016 prediction then.
So, "it's only a matter of time", but it might be a hell of a long time.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
A Poll conducted by the IFA amomgst blockbookers would be interesting.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Why would they limit their research to the blockbookers? The IFA is the governing body of football for the whole of Northern Ireland, not just those current fans who go can afford to go to games.
End Apartheid Now! One Team in Ireland!
Because they're easily identified and contacted, and provide a sample large enough to be representative.
The opinions of current fans are probably of more use to the IFA than a random selection of non-fans, Bellylaugh readers or obsessive internet users in England.not just those current fans
Given that NI play only four or five home games per year, a block booking is affordable to most. Even if you don't think it offers particularly good value.who go can afford to go to games
It depends on what your objective is.
If you want to confirm the status quo, then by all means limit the poll to block bookers.
If you want to gauge whether a move away from GSTQ would make for a more broadly representative team, then you'll have to expand the pool.
I suspect the IFA has little interest in diluting the team's core British identity and as such would be loath to undertake research that might not support that.
Which is completely fine, by the way, but you'd then have to accept that there will continue to be a substantial part of the country's football community that has little to no interest in the Northern Ireland team.
More easily identified and contacted than, say, another equally large sample of people from Northern Ireland?
Why is that? Shouldn't they seek to consult a much broader NI crowd than current NI fans, given that they purport to represent the region?The opinions of current fans are probably of more use to the IFA than a random selection of non-fans, Bellylaugh readers or obsessive internet users in England.
End Apartheid Now! One Team in Ireland!
To canvass the opinion of NI fans in a way that's both representative of them, and effective to carry out.
Er, obviously no- since every time this issue raises on this and any other forum, I always say I'd prefer a distinct NI anthem to replace GSTQIf you want to confirm the status quo, then by all means limit the poll to block bookers
A poll of block bookers isn't 'limited', as I explained- they are people demonstrating their support for the NI team in a straightforward and affordable way.
I don't, actually. More important to gauge what NI fans actually think on the issue, and as a result to make the anthem (or whatever) more representative of them.If you want to gauge whether a move away from GSTQ would make for a more broadly representative team, then you'll have to expand the pool
No ****, Sherlock. I wouldn't be too keen on the idea myself, assuming that you mean making the team less representative of its fans?I suspect the IFA has little interest in diluting the team's core British identity
Such research- a weighted poll of 1,000 NI adults?- would presumably identify significant groups of people who are uninterested in football, and/or want a united Ireland yesterday. Why would the IFA realistically care what they think? However any research question is worded it's unlikely to identify a significant group of nw fans who'd be attracted by a knees up to Danny Boy, Ireland's Call, or some dirge written by Snow Patrol.and as such would be loath to undertake research that might not support that
And in any case, so long as the IFA don't actually break any laws or breach the peace with their anthems, competition names or long-standing bans on large sectors of the community, everyone else will probably lose interest in this issue and find some other exaggerated controversy to get outraged about.
I've always accepted that a significant number of them support the RoI, so what's new? As above, I imagine an insignifcant number of those would be attracted to Windsor by a new anthem. Do you seriously think otherwise?you'd then have to accept that there will continue to be a substantial part of the country's football community that has little to no interest in the Northern Ireland team
Er, yes- since a self-selected group such as NI fans are easier to contact- you just put a flyer in their renewal form, merchandise catalog or whatever. You don't need to conduct a complex Gallup poll weighted for the right number of Sinn Fein and DUP voters, or the like.
And- more importantly- they don't need to be filtered to exclude the uninterested or irredeemably biased. You already know they support NI, that's the whole point of asking them what they think.
Don't play dumb. What NI fans think is obviously of value to the IFA; what most non-fans think isn't, provided the IFA stay within the rule of law and don't explicitly exclude others.Why is that? Shouldn't they seek to consult a much broader NI crowd than current NI fans, given that they purport to represent the region?
As I suggested in a previous reply to you, expecting sports administrators to do much more than represent their fans and stay within those broad legal limits is a bit pointless. Particularly in a polarised situation like NI where we know what 90% of the voters think on most aspects of the overriding single issue locally.
This isn't going to be an election issue or force a constitutional amendment. The most you'll get is a phone in to Wendy or Nolan, if they don't float your boat hand in a petition or something.
Last edited by Gather round; 02/12/2011 at 7:35 PM.
That's what I was trying to clarify. You're only interested in those who currently support the team, however the IFA's current policy - in public at least - is to expand the support base by attracting more people from nationalist backgrounds.
Well I mean putting a smaller emphasis on the overt symbols of British nationalism (i.e. the anthem) to create a more agreeable environment for those who don't identify with those symbols, like the way the IRFU doesn't use Amhran na bhFiann outside of the Republic.No ****, Sherlock. I wouldn't be too keen on the idea myself, assuming that you mean making the team less representative of its fans?
Well you filter out people who aren't interested in football by only surveying people who are. The people who want a United Ireland yesterday will presumably answer that GSTQ and related symbols are irrelevant to them, which would support your position.Such research- a weighted poll of 1,000 NI adults?- would presumably identify significant groups of people who are uninterested in football, and/or want a united Ireland yesterday. Why would the IFA realistically care what they think? However any research question is worded it's unlikely to identify a significant group of nw fans who'd be attracted by a knees up to Danny Boy, Ireland's Call, or some dirge written by Snow Patrol.
I have no idea, but I imagine the current crop of football fans are stuck in their ways. Presumably you'd like the Northern Ireland team to still exist in the future though, and I'd wager future generations of kids from nationalist backgrounds would be more favourably disposed to a team that's more broadly representative of the entire population. That said, the status quo seems to be alright with everybody except those who cry about nationalists opting for the Republic.And in any case, so long as the IFA don't actually break any laws or breach the peace with their anthems, competition names or long-standing bans on large sectors of the community, everyone else will probably lose interest in this issue and find some other exaggerated controversy to get outraged about.
I've always accepted that a significant number of them support the RoI, so what's new? As above, I imagine an insignifcant number of those would be attracted to Windsor by a new anthem. Do you seriously think otherwise?
Surely according to the claims of the farcical 'Football For All, surely the IFA and related anthem/flag should reflect the wishes of the whole populace??
Not a few thousand people who mainly seem to have large girths...
Maybe they were;doesn't mean it won't happen though.Gerry, Marty and the boys were a tad out with the 2016 prediction then.
So, "it's only a matter of time", but it might be a hell of a long time.
Not quite. While they're the priority for the reasons I described, I'm also interested in potential new fans, even large groups which represent whole sectors of society.
As I've said many times on here, realistically such new fans are more likely to come from the unionist (or non-nationalist, if you prefer) community. Nationalist football fans in NI tend to support the Republic as we know. That's not to say a more welcoming atmosphere for them wouldn't be welcome, they just aren't the priority as I see it; they already support another team.
Indeed. As far as I know- not that far, as I live in England am not an IFA official in any capacity- it's the same in private. I simply think it's the wrong priority, as I say above.however the IFA's current policy - in public at least - is to expand the support base by attracting more people from nationalist backgrounds
Well, to repeat again: I certainly don't identify with- or like- GSTQ, yet I've been watching NI games since the 70s and don't find the anthem a major factor in setting the environment. Actually I'm normally tranferring from pub to seat via toilets while it's playing. So funnily enough, I don't think changing the anthem, if it happens, will make that much difference to the atmosphere, nor indeed the people who turn up.Well I mean putting a smaller emphasis on the overt symbols of British nationalism (i.e. the anthem) to create a more agreeable environment for those who don't identify with those symbols
I'm not a RU fan so merely quoting others second hand, but assuming that comment is serious it's misplaced. Almost all the NI unionist RU fans I know think the lack of AnbF outside the Republic is irrelevant; if the IRFU wanted to make a real symbolic gesture they'd stop playing it at Lansdowne.like the way the IRFU doesn't use Amhran na bhFiann outside of the Republic
That's my point. Other people (ie those who aren't ever likely, realistically, to show at an NI game) are largely irrelevant to the IFA. Remember, they aren't a government agency or political party- they don't have to be accountable to the wider electorate as long as they operate within the law, as I said.Well you filter out people who aren't interested in football by only surveying people who are
Maybe, but I daresay they also relfect the society they live in. Which, in NI means 90% of voters voting around a single issue, as I mentioned.I imagine the current crop of football fans are stuck in their ways
That's nice.I'll match your wager: in 25 years, I expect the NI side will be running out to something other than GSTQ, because before then I imagine support for something more distinct will have grown. Always assuming FIFA still use national anthems generally of course. And then your notional generation of nationalist kids* will likely be doing one of two things- either happily supporting NI, or conversely gurning about their alientation because there still isn't a united Ireland in 2036. Either way, my suggested strategy will be vindicatedPresumably you'd like the Northern Ireland team to still exist in the future though, and I'd wager future generations of kids from nationalist backgrounds would be more favourably disposed to a team that's more broadly representative of the entire population
* I saw a press report today about the proposed closure of one of NI's two teacher training colleges. Nationalist and unionist hacks rounded on the Alliance guy for having the temerity to even suggest that they merge. If that ever happens, I wonder how that will affect segregated education and its knock on effect on football supporting?
That group doesn't include me. If they want to emigrate, fine: it would be better if they hadn't amassed numerous cps for NI adult sides first.That said, the status quo seems to be alright with everybody except those who cry about nationalists opting for the Republic
Surely it should be about appealing to future generations, rather than a few paranoid fools stuck in the past?
And you'll all be glad to know that our rotund 'friend' 'enjoyed' his own 'Jeremy Clarkson moment' earlier when he referred to members of this board in rather disparaging terms...
Surely it's obvious they would object to its existence (Rather like unionists are to a UI).
And quite understandable, given they were the indigenous population who were most disadvantaged.
It's hardly rocket science...
Where have the IFA stated this publicly?
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Why do the IRFU use it in the Republic?
Anyway, perhaps GSTQ followed by a uniquely Northern Irish Anthem is the way to go, based on the practice of the IRFU.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
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