Eligibility Rules, Okay

[geysir]

These are the proven interpretation of the FIFA rules of eligibility as they stand now and how they affect us.
These are proven by FIFA practice, not by speculation of how FIFA might or should interpret their own rules.
The thread can be searched for at any time and I can also clarify/edit the content in the thread opening post, should it be necessary.

IOI = Island of Ireland

BORN IN THE IOI
Most anyone born on IOI qualifies to play for the FAI.
One main exception is a NI born player who has already received a senior competitive cap for the IFA.
An IFA capped player at any other level, can switch to the FAI.
Precedent is Daniel Kearns.


DUAL NATIONALS BORN OUTSIDE THE IOI

Most, if not all, qualify because they have a parent or grandparent born on the island of Ireland, not just born in the 26 counties.
The precedent is proven for those players with NI born ancestors, as seen in the eligibility of Alex Bruce. Alex has one or both grandparents born in Co Down.
He was declared eligible for the FAI in 2006 under the eligibility rule, Annex 901, which is exactly the same as current eligibility rule17.


DUAL NATIONAL ALREADY CAPPED BY ANOTHER ASSOCIATION.

A dual national cannot switch if he has already received a senior competitive international cap.
He can change only once, if he has not already received a senior competitive international cap

eg. Ciaran Clark has been capped at youth level for the FA. He applied to switch to the FAI and that has been approved by FIFA.
At the moment, he is selected to play in a senior friendly, but not yet capped at the time of writing.
He is regarded as 'switched to the FAI' when he has received a cap.
Until he is capped, he is still at liberty to revert back to to the FA.
Clark can be named in the FAI squad, but if he is not capped, then FIFA do not regard that he has used his 2nd choice.
Should Clark change his mind before the game tonight, he can still choose to revert to England.
Once Clark receives a cap - even a friendly cap - he is regarded as using up his 2nd choice

DUAL NATIONAL, NOT ALREADY CAPPED.

The player has 2 choices until he receives a senior competitive cap.
Aiden McGeady is tied to the FAI, since he received his first senior competitive cap.

James McCarthy is not tied to the FAI until he receives his first senior competitive cap.

[paul_oshea]

Ya, the way I see the whole automatic thing and acquired its not how EG and Not Brazil see it. Acquired in the case EG keeps pointing to means residency or whatever other means. Anyone whose Grandparent is born on the Island of Ireland is entitled to Irish citizenship at birth. Therefore its not acquired through any other means/criteria and is a birth right.

Fair play geysir, I don't really have much interest in the whole arguement Fifa articles but this is good, that recession has given you far more time up there in the cold. I think this should be a sticky.

[cufc champions]

No provision for Paul Butler

[Not Brazil]

Ya, the way I see the whole automatic thing and acquired its not how EG and Not Brazil see it. Acquired in the case EG keeps pointing to means residency or whatever other means. Anyone whose Grandparent is born on the Island of Ireland is entitled to Irish citizenship at birth. Therefore its not acquired through any other means/criteria and is a birth right.

If one of your grandparents is an Irish citizen but none of your parents was born in Ireland, you may become an Irish citizen. You will need to have your birth registered in the Foreign Births Register.If you are entitled to register, your Irish citizenship is effective from the date of registration.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...r_descent.html

[paul_oshea]

If one of your grandparents is an Irish citizen but none of your parents was born in Ireland, you may become an Irish citizen. You will need to have your birth registered in the Foreign Births Register.If you are entitled to register, your Irish citizenship is effective from the date of registration.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...r_descent.html

which could be the day you were born(not that it matters) and before you claim any other nationality(even in the country you were born you are still entitled to citizenship, as stated in box A again entitlement doesn't mean you have to take it up), its not the same as acquiring through criteria of residency or such other. Its the same box A(a person born on the Island of Ireland) in that pdf is "entitled to irish citizenship".

[shakermaker1982]

This is gonna be fun!!!

[geysir]

No provision for Paul Butler

Of course there is, getting trapped by an Irish woman didn't qualify Paul for the FAI.
Paul Butler might have qualified for Irish nationality based on his marriage to an Irish girl (I´m not sure) but his step-father's father was Irish.
It was the latter that allowed him to declare for the FAI.
Paul's cause
`My step-father's father, Seamus, was born in Dublin and it's through him that I've qualified to play for Ireland,'' he explained.

[geysir]

that recession has given you far more time up there in the cold. I think this should be a sticky.

Any ideas for a good pyramid scheme would be welcome.

[paul_oshea]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_Guys (subtle but you should get it)

[osarusan]

which could be the day you were born(not that it matters) and before you claim any other nationality(even in the country you were born you are still entitled to citizenship, as stated in box A again entitlement doesn't mean you have to take it up), its not the same as acquiring through criteria of residency or such other. Its the same box A(a person born on the Island of Ireland) in that pdf is "entitled to irish citizenship".

We're talking about citizenship now, rather than eligibility, but we need to clarify things, Paul. First of all, it's impossible to register a foreign birth on the actual birth date - these things need documentation and have to applied for and certified.



My family's case is an example of this.

I'm an Irish citizen - Category A.

My daughter, born in Japan, is an Irish citizen by birthright (as in, a right granted by virtue of her birth), category C.

My son, born in Limerick last month, is an Irish citizen, category B.

If my son has a child outside Ireland, that child will be an Irish citizen (category C) from the moment of their birth. But, if my daughter has a child outside Ireland (whose father is not an Irish citizen category A or B), that child will not be an Irish citizen from the instant of their birth, but only if and when their birth is registered with the foreign births register.

[Yard of Pace]

Cracking thread title, by the way

[ifk101]

DUAL NATIONAL ALREADY CAPPED BY ANOTHER ASSOCIATION.

A dual national cannot switch if he has already received a senior competitive international cap.
He can change only once, if he has not already received a senior competitive international cap

eg. Ciaran Clark has been capped at youth level for the FA. He applied to switch to the FAI and that has been approved by FIFA.
At the moment, he is selected to play in a senior friendly, but not yet capped at the time of writing.
He is regarded as 'switched to the FAI' when he has received a cap.
Until he is capped, he is still at liberty to revert back to to the FA.
Clark can be named in the FAI squad, but if he is not capped, then FIFA do not regard that he has used his 2nd choice.
Should Clark change his mind before the game tonight, he can still choose to revert to England.
Once Clark receives a cap - even a friendly cap - he is regarded as using up his 2nd choice

My understanding is that Clark is tied to us regardless if he plays a senior international or not. Once a player files and acknowledges a change of association it is irreversible. See the below extract from the Daniel Kearns' ruling.

II. BACKGROUND FACTS
II.1 Mr Kearns’ Request for a Change of Association
5. Mr Kearns was born on 26 August 1991 in Antrim, Northern Ireland. His parents
were also born in Northern Ireland and held passports of the Republic of Ireland at
the time of his birth.
6. It is undisputed that Mr Kearns has had dual British and Irish citizenship from
birth.
7. Mr Kearns was selected in several international matches for the U-15 and U-16
schoolboy teams of Northern Ireland as well as for the Northern Ireland U-17 and
U-19 teams. However, he has never played a match in an official competition at
“A” international level for the IFA.
8. On 11 August 2009, Mr Kearns filed an application before FIFA for a change of
association team, from the IFA to the FAI. On 2 November 2009, he confirmed to
FIFA his request, acknowledging the fact that such a change would be
irreversible.
9. On 3 November 2009 and in compliance with the applicable FIFA regulations, the
FAI submitted a formal request to FIFA for Mr Kearns’ change of association team.
It fulfilled all the administrative requirements at the latest by 21 December
2009.

[boovidge]

I think the point is that it's an entitlement from birth, regardless of when the paperwork's done. .

[osarusan]

@IFK - As I understand it, the 'approval' for a change of association is actually an international cap (even a friendly). As in, a player hasn't actually changed associations until he has been capped by the representative team of his new association.

Not sure about it though.

[paul_oshea]

If my son has a child outside Ireland, that child will be an Irish citizen (category C) from the moment of their birth. But, if my daughter has a child outside Ireland (whose father is not an Irish citizen category A or B), that child will not be an Irish citizen from the instant of its birth, but only if and when their birth is registered with the foreign births register.

Is that not what I said though? Its an entitlement to citizenship, just as, as you read box A of that pdf, being born in Ireland is an entitlement.

Entitled meaning in this case, proof of ancestary. Its not acquired through criteria of residency or any such other.

I think the point is that it's an entitlement from birth, regardless of when the paperwork's done. .

Exactly, osarusan missed that point I think. He was getting technical on the dates. Its an entitlement from birth same as Box A.


If you are: Then you are:
A Born in the island of Ireland on or before 31 December 2004 Entitled to Irish citizenship or you are an Irish citizen
B Born on the island of Ireland on or after 1 January 2005 Entitled to Irish citizenship if your parents are Irish. Entitled to Irish citizenship, if your parents are foreign nationals legally resident in the island of Ireland for 3 out of 4 years immediately prior to your birth.
C Child of A, born outside the island of Ireland An Irish citizen
D Child of C and a grandchild of A, born outside the island of Ireland Entitled to Irish citizenship, but you must first register in the Foreign Births Register
E a child of D and a great-grandchild of A, born outside the island of Ireland Entitled to Irish citizenship, by having your birth registered in the Foreign Births Register, but only if your parent D had registered by the time of your birth.

[Predator]

eg. Ciaran Clark has been capped at youth level for the FA. He applied to switch to the FAI and that has been approved by FIFA.
At the moment, he is selected to play in a senior friendly, but not yet capped at the time of writing.
He is regarded as 'switched to the FAI' when he has received a cap.
Until he is capped, he is still at liberty to revert back to to the FA.
Clark can be named in the FAI squad, but if he is not capped, then FIFA do not regard that he has used his 2nd choice.
Should Clark change his mind before the game tonight, he can still choose to revert to England.
Once Clark receives a cap - even a friendly cap - he is regarded as using up his 2nd choice

Can you clarify this one for me geysir? I was under the impression that once a player applied FIFA to change association, and the eligibility etc. was reviewed and approved, that was considered to be an official change of association.

EDIT: ifk has made the same point.

[osarusan]

I think the point is that it's an entitlement from birth, regardless of when the paperwork's done. .

But actually it matters quite a lot when the paperwork's done, because:

If you are entitled to register, your Irish citizenship is effective from the date of registration. The Irish citizenship of successive generations may be maintained in this way by each generation ensuring their registration in the Foreign Births Register before the birth of the next generation.

Since 1 July 1986, a person registered in the Foreign Births Entry Book after 1986 is deemed to be an Irish citizen only from the date of his/her entry in the Register and not from the date of birth. This means that children born to that person before his/her date of entry in the Register are not entitled to citizenship.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...r_descent.html

[paul_oshea]

But actually it matters quite a lot when the paperwork's done, because:



http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...r_descent.html

Just cos you didnt get your Thanks to stick

Its not really though to the discussion I was having previouslly on Celtic cup thread which is what I was referring to. I think you are just getting technical, now desist and apologise saying I was wrong

EG will be here in no time, like a rat up a pipe, he has probably smelt it already No offence EG

[osarusan]

now desist and apologise saying I was wrong

My post has been judiciously edited.

[paul_oshea]

You get your thanks back.