Republic of Ireland V Wales - Monday, 8th February 2011 - Carling Nations Cup

**Yard of Pace** · 09/02/2011, 1:14 PM

Originally Posted by Wolfie

The quality of the goal reminded me of a previous midfielder we all had high hopes for at one stage. Everyone remember Liam Miller's cracker against Sweden in 2006?? (2006 Goal of the Year on Foot.ie if I remember correctly????).

When they said it was Gibson's first goal for us I was thinking to myself "....jaysis....has he not done that before sometime for Ireland...?" and then realised I was thinking of Liam Miller. Will be fascinating to see what way Gibson's career pans out in comparison.

**geysir** · 09/02/2011, 1:16 PM

We should beat Macedonia at home even with what we have now.
I think there is enough time and and opportunity for J Mac to become embedded in the team before we play Macedonia away in June.

**Sullivinho** · 09/02/2011, 1:19 PM

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

When in doubt our back 4 always go long. They panic and before you know it the opposition are coming right back at us.

So very true. Really aimless stuff at times, leaving too much to chance.

**paul_oshea** · 09/02/2011, 1:28 PM

Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

I agree, he possibly isn't quite as assured. Given does look a little rusty. Note - a little. But in terms of actual errors, he's made similar mistakes at regular occasions throughout his career without any passing comment being made. He's just under the spotlight because he's not playing. And none of his errors (in particular last night's, which was totally innocuous) leads me to believe he's a disaster waiting to happen.

Rusty maybe, and I probably am focusing a little too much. That said, when he came back from his perforated bowel(the point being here he hadn't been playing), he still look assured, whether rusty or not, I dont think so.

This is different though. He is not coming back from injured, he has been dropped for whatever reason, he is not being picked. Psychologically, when he had harper out for years, he always looked assured and confident. I think this has effected him mentally realising that he is not the prefered option, and doubting his own ablities. The one thing he has always looked for ireland was very confident and assured. That is not there now, as evident against russia and norway, little things like coming out for the ball, hesitating, just generally more concious of every decision he made(makes). That is not rustiness, its mental attitude. He is lacking in that department at the moment and understandably so. Thats where I base my statement on, rather than a little misjudgement last night, over the course of a few games.

**paul_oshea** · 09/02/2011, 1:30 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

We should beat Macedonia at home even with what we have now.
I think there is enough time and and opportunity for J Mac to become embedded in the team before we play Macedonia away in June.

Yep macedonia away is where i would prefer to have him, but i dont think its the right place to make your debut(competitive) and I'm sure trap wouldn't too. We should beat macedonia at home with or without JMC. But i fear for macedonia, and i think his drive in midfield, his impetus and innovation around the box could be crucial over there.

**paul_oshea** · 09/02/2011, 1:32 PM

Originally Posted by Sullivinho

So very true. Really aimless stuff at times, leaving too much to chance.

Ya Dunne the big fat hypocrite ****ed me off last night a few times. Whelan was looking for the pass a couple of times and he chose to ignore him, ignoring all his own criticisms in the past.

I love dunney monster, player, recruitment agent, welfare officer, and yet a rebel at heart who likes to drive the wrong way up one way streets.

**Charlie Darwin** · 09/02/2011, 1:40 PM

This is the first time I've ever seen somebody called a big fat hypocrite for not passing to a midfielder.

**tetsujin1979** · 09/02/2011, 1:42 PM

how does not passing to a midfielder make him a hypocrite?
Did he ever say he was going to only pass to the midfield?

**geysir** · 09/02/2011, 1:46 PM

Thats just Paul attempting a sarcastic reference to Dunne in the past saying we don't pass it around like we could.

**Duggie** · 09/02/2011, 1:50 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

Thats just Paul attempting a sarcastic reference to Dunne in the past saying we don't pass it around like we could.

i got the sarcasim there...

**tetsujin1979** · 09/02/2011, 1:55 PM

Shay Given: Only had one shot to save, and he saved it. Job done

John O'Shea: Looked a bit off the pace, didn't link as well with Coleman as he has with McGeady in the past, and the two frequently got in each other's way
Sean St. Ledger: Solid shift beside Dunne, was it him who headed the ball on the ground in the first half?
Richard Dunne: See above. Thought he favoured the long ball to the inside-left channel too much, but he's not there to create
Ciaran Clark: Strong debut, could have had a goal and should be another threat from set pieces in future. Will be a judgement call between him and Cunningham in future

Seamus Coleman: Thought he wasn't given any space by the Welsh left full. Got the by-line to cross a few times, and had a nice flick for Clark's chance in the first half, but I don't think he'll start at right wing when McGeady is available
Darron Gibson: Stunning first goal for the midfielder, but I felt a lot of the game passed him by
Glenn Whelan: Did what he always does, sat deep and protected the centre of defence
Damien Duff: Best game from Duffer in a long time, and took the goal he deserved well on his less-favoured right foot

Jonathan Walters: Works his socks off, would have been MOTM for me if not for Duff
Kevin Doyle: Had an off night by his standards, one wide shot aside

Shane Long: Should have had at least one goal, linked better with Walters than Doyle had
Keith Fahey: Cracking free kick, think he should start with Whelan when both are available
Andy Keogh: One excellent pass aside, I didn't really notice him, but he was on the opposite side of the pitch to me
Paul Green: Not on long enough to make any real impact, but he didn't do anything wrong either
Marc Wilson: As above
Darren O'Dea: Did he touch the ball?

The clich�d game of two halves. The first half was a fairly turgid affair, with defence seeming to prefer long balls in the general direction of Duff/Doyle/Walters to anything else. Clark's chance was the highlight.
Second half saw a massive step up in class and pressure from the Irish, with Walters in particular tormenting the Welsh defence until he tired. Gibson's goal will live long in the memory, and I really do hope he pushes on from it. Duff's first goal in some time was well deserved after his best game in some time. Fahey's finish from a free kick has given the team another option rather than aim at Dunne/Kilbane/O'Shea.
The additions of Clark especially gives the back line a more solid look, but until Cunningham returns we're still weak in that position. It will be interesting to see which of those two gets the starting nod.
Coleman's omission against Norway raised the heckles a bit, but I didn't see anything from him against Wales that other options in that position (Duff/Hunt/McGeady) already give us. In the immediate future I'd see him in the impact sub role on the right wing.

The win puts us in a strong position to win this inaugural tournament, along with the additions to the squad, that's all you can really ask for

(also I believe that's our first goal direct from a free kick since Lawrence against South Africa?)

**paul_oshea** · 09/02/2011, 1:56 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

Thats just Paul attempting a sarcastic reference to Dunne in the past saying we don't pass it around like we could.

I wasn't attempting to be sarcastic, but thats the point I was making alright. He hoofed it 3 times in a row bypassing the midfield.

**Stuttgart88** · 09/02/2011, 2:03 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

I didn't see that penalty claim against Coleman clearly.
From what I could make out, the claim had no validity and the ref was right there on the spot.

Don't agree, he had a hold of the guy's arm momentarily. Very careless and it could easily have been given.

**Stuttgart88** · 09/02/2011, 2:11 PM

SKY showing it again now. Long definitely left it for Duff to score. He was about to hit it but you can tell he got a call and pulled out of the shot.

Gibson has been mixed. He got on the ball quite a bit, used it simply and well for the most part, but played some careless balls too. Although Gunther was at fault for duff's goal, it was Gibson who played the ball in for Walters to chase.

Whelan & Gibson, whilst a bit too similar in style (SF's "two Robins, no Batman" is probably correct), definitely contributed to the ball being kep low for most of the game, which can only be a good thing. All round the tempo was a bit slow nad they won't have that luxury in any of the qualifiers.

Just on the basis of last night I saw no reason to be critical of Shay. He had zero to do, so body language or anything like that is nothing to remark on. It looks like he's a bit heavier than last year though.

**geysir** · 09/02/2011, 2:17 PM

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Andy Keogh: One excellent pass aside, I didn't really notice him, but he was on the opposite side of the pitch to me

Andy swung over one lovely cross from the sideline.
He was active and did his covering work.
He looks a bit ungainly at times, other times he does something really neat.

**paul_oshea** · 09/02/2011, 2:17 PM

Is it easier watch now you know the result, no tense feelings, no biting the nails?

**geysir** · 09/02/2011, 2:23 PM

Have you ever watched a recording a game, not knowing the result, couldn't endure the pressure and ff to find out if we held on?

i came close to that, watching a recording of the home game against Israel.

**paul_oshea** · 09/02/2011, 2:25 PM

I haven't no, cos I cant remember actually ever watching a recording, having not first seen the game live. And I have seen all games that were televised live if not present for as long as I can remember.

**Closed Account** · 09/02/2011, 2:54 PM

Given:7 Had very little to do. The shot that he had to save, he's let it go on purpose. He's done that before, its just to take the sting out of the shot, good goalkeeping, would of held on were players closer to him.

O'Shea:6 Had a little trouble with Robson Kanu in the first half but recovered well.

Dunne:7 Typical Dunne performance, read most of the Welsh attacks.

St Ledger:7.5 Nearly always plays well in an Ireland shirt, strong in the air, comfortable on the ball.

Clark:7.5 Good debut, did everything expected of him which will have impressed Trap.

One point about the defence, particularly in the first half, was that they hit it long a lot. Kevin Doyle mentioned this before that is one of Trapattonis tactics, so you can't really blame the defence for it. I know its frustrating but thats how we are set up. Trap wants us to hit it long and start building our attacks from there. Essentially get the other team up near their own goal as soon as possible, if we win it back, we can pass it around, back to Richie and out again.

Coleman:7 Had Lawrence been fit, we'd of seen Seamie come on at 60 minutes rather than off and he'd of enjoyed much more success. The last 30 minutes were more suited to his type of game. That being said, he did well, a couple of heavy touches and the penalty decision aside. He'd of been punished for that in a competitive game, especially away.

Whelan:7 Did grand, typical stuff, good run to set up Longs chance.

Gibson:7 Bit of an enigma. Taking out the goal which was fantastic, he's misplaced 3 relatively simple balls out to JOSH on the right touchline. Its a criticism of him that he seems to give away the ball in dangerous positions too often. Shouldn't be hard to remove from his game, but the worry is, that he won't learn from it and until he gives away an important goal somewhere.

Duff:8 Class act, most irreplaceable player in the squad at the moment.

Whelan/Gibson arguably have the hardest job in the current Irish setup. Its all about discipline. They know that when Ireland win it, its going to fly over their head, then they must just protect that middle channel down the center of the pitch and only when Ireland have pushed out and won the ball back can they start playing. Gibsons positioning was very good yesterday and Wales couldn't play through the middle which has happened us before.

Walters:7 First half was tough for him, he got a lot of ball facing away from goal and couldn't do much with it, but as the game went on he managed to get in better positions. Had a couple of decent efforts, either side of the goalkeeper and they'd of had a chance.

Doyle:6.5 Clearly tired but was fairly effective, had one good chance and unlucky with a cut back.

Subs:
Long:6.5 Was sloppy once and if he'd kept his head over the ball from Duffs assist he'd have another international goal, that being said, his run to get in that position was clever, hugged the touchline until the perfect moment, defence never noticed him. And I'm giving him the assist, I think he's heard the shout from duffer and he's just helped it on. Claims that his foot hit the turf don't make sense as he's changed the direction of the ball(slightly).
Keogh:6.5 Got the ball in good positions a couple of times but chose the wrong options both times. If a choice came down to him and Coleman for the last 30 on the right wing, it'd have to be Coleman. Dropped further out of contention as he's not in contention up front either.
Green:6.5 Wasn't on that long, but a couple of times he's given away position when no need. Would only reason use him were we trying to soak up pressure or hold onto a lead.
Fahey:7 Benefits from Trap using him as a wide midfielder where he's allowed take risks rather than down the middle where his hands are tied by tactics. Don't think Trap trusts him to sit in front of the back 4.
Wilson:6.5 Didn't get a lot of touches but thats not to say Trap won't of noticed that what he did, he did well. Didn't give it away unlike Green.
O'Dea:6.5 Slotted in beside Dunne(Sledge to RB), headed it away a few times and did what he had to.

Dammit, that was a lot longer than I meant.
The gist of this game was to see if there were anymore options for Macedonia.
Based on that performance.

Code:

		    Given
O'Shea		Dunne	St Ledger	Clark
Lawrence	Whelan	Gibson		Duff
		Doyle	Keane

Green/Gibson/Andrews and McGeady the only wildcards as Trap has a hardon for him, but I wouldn't even have him in the squad.
Not much has changed since last night. Gibson mightn't have done enough, giving away possession too much.

**rebelmusic** · 09/02/2011, 7:14 PM

One thing i'd note and i said it last night. If McGeady was playing we would have been far more offensive in the first half. There was noone really who could beat a player by skill except Duffer and although Clarke did support him all the time, his distribution wasn't the best.

That and Doyler being well off his game.

Despite all that I'd agree with Joe's starting lineup with McGeady on for Lawrence when needed and Long on for Doyle. Green should be no.2 to Whelan forever, never a partner. He's just Whelan but not as good.