Republic of Ireland V Wales - Monday, 8th February 2011 - Carling Nations Cup

**ArdeeBhoy** · 07/02/2011, 8:27 PM

Originally Posted by osarusan

Ah Tuff Paddy - how I miss him so.

Not that hard to find, over on Ybig.ie !

**Cymro** · 07/02/2011, 9:30 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

can you tell me anything about this young cardiff lad called sullivan? Looks like a very good player. Only young still, have you (wales) big hopes for him?

Haven't a clue who you're talking about.

Originally Posted by Kingdom

eardley is the Blackpool lad yeah? He's having a good season. Simon Church has done well at underage level for Wales I think.

Fair comment on both counts, but I don't rate Church. Whenever I see him for Reading, his goals seem to come from close range and he hasn't scored many this year. He works his nuts off though, I'll give him that.

Originally Posted by Kingdom

Once Earnshaw doesn't score I won't mind. Can't stand him.

Hes alright since he stopped playing for Cardiff.

**osarusan** · 07/02/2011, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Hear hear.

Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Not that hard to find, over on Ybig.ie !

Well actually, I was....ah...joking.

**SwanVsDalton** · 07/02/2011, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by osarusan

Well actually, I was....ah...joking.

**geysir** · 07/02/2011, 11:21 PM

I knew Wales were coming, but didn't think it mattered who was in their team.
It's all about us.

**Scooby Doo** · 08/02/2011, 12:00 AM

Just thinkin, if, as someone said earlier, Trap is plannin on using all six subs, then maybe Westwood will get a runout at some stage. Would be happy with that!

**Nedser** · 08/02/2011, 7:12 AM

Originally Posted by drummerboy

I can't understand how people think Stokes is a better player than Keogh. Stokes has been a huge failure in both levels of English football while at the very least, Keogh is a proven Championship player. Stokes scores in the SPL which is a very small step up from LOI. Stokes couldn't score, or even hold down a regular place with any of the many English clubs he was with in England. Actually I don't see Stokes starting today, has he been dropped by Celtic?

As pointed out on other threads in recent days, you're judging Stokes on "failures" when he was a teenager. He's still only 22, and has been in great form for the past year and a half. Yes, only in the SPL, but as I mentioned in response to someone else making that point, Robbie Keane has also pretty much only scored in the SPL in the last two years. Does that mean Robbie is somehow sh1t? No.

Regarding Stokes being dropped on Sunday, you're correct he was left out. It seems that twice in a row at Ibrox Lennon has opted to play with just 1 up front, and Stokes has been omitted. I think it's clear that's a tactical decision rather than a reflection on Stokes' ability or form though.

I find it absolutely bizarre that Jon Walters is starting and Stokes isn't in the squad. I think it's becoming clear that Stokes is another player who Trap just doesn't like. That may well be down to his reputation for having an attitude problem, but again that seems to have mainly been an issue when he was a teenager. I think it's a real shame, as Stokes has the potential to be a class act. Jon Walters is already 27 and has had a very nondescript career, so I can't say he strikes me as a great prospect for the future.

**Hibs4Ever** · 08/02/2011, 7:55 AM

Originally Posted by Nedser

As pointed out on other threads in recent days, you're judging Stokes on "failures" when he was a teenager. He's still only 22, and has been in great form for the past year and a half. Yes, only in the SPL, but as I mentioned in response to someone else making that point, Robbie Keane has also pretty much only scored in the SPL in the last two years. Does that mean Robbie is somehow sh1t? No. .

Keane has proved himself at the highest level, and now at West Ham, continues this. Stokes has failed, repeatedly, at Championship level. It really amazes me how people can't grasp how sh!t the standard of the SPL is. As I've said before, Stokes was at Falkirk, scored for fun, went to England, scored 4 goals in 61 games, went back to Scotland, scoring for fun, says it all. He's doing great against teams like St Mirren, Hibs, Hamilton, all would be non league standard in England. FFS Conor Sammon couldn't get a game for Derry City then scored regularly in the SPL!

Originally Posted by Nedser

I find it absolutely bizarre that Jon Walters is starting and Stokes isn't in the squad. .

Walters plays and scores for a Premiership club, so no, not that "bizarre". Stokes would be 6 or 7 in line to play up front for us

**paul_oshea** · 08/02/2011, 8:21 AM

I think that might be plays and scored.

**Nedser** · 08/02/2011, 9:12 AM

Originally Posted by Hibs4Ever

FFS Conor Sammon couldn't get a game for Derry City then scored regularly in the SPL!

Actually, Sammon scored only 2 goals in his first 2 seasons in the SPL (in 42 games). He suddenly hit goalscoring form for the first time in his career about 6 months ago, but you can hardly correlate that with his arrival in the SPL.

Originally Posted by Hibs4Ever

Walters plays and scores for a Premiership club, so no, not that "bizarre". Stokes would be 6 or 7 in line to play up front for us

Are you being serious? Walters has scored a grand total of 3 Premiership goals in 23 games. Prior to that, he scored a total of 30 goals in 4 full seasons in the Championship. He was virtually ever present in the last 3 of those seasons, yet only got his goal tally into double figures once (when he scored 13 goals in 2007-2008).

Prior to that, he achieved nothing. When he was the same age as Stokes is now, he spent the season at Wrexham in the 4th tier of English football, and scored 5 goals in 38 games. And that was the best season of his career up until that point.

Walters is a journeyman, who has already most likely reached his peak. I have nothing against him, but if he is the future of our striking options we have very little to look forward to.

He'll probably score a hat trick tonight now though!

**Junior** · 08/02/2011, 9:12 AM

I base my judgement on what I see from a player. Murphy looks poor in my opinion, though Stokes looks like he has it (skill, effort, a bit of dig and can score goals, still very young). Both are at the same club in the SPL - Does that make them both $hit? No it doesn't.

Walters, looks extremely ordinary. Would it be any different to sticking Gary Doherty up front for the last 30 minutes. Perhaps a little harsh, oh wait, he is playing in the EPL, of course its different.

**ArdeeBhoy** · 08/02/2011, 9:14 AM

Really. Some people on here know even less about the game than even Trapattoni.

**Bottle of Tonic** · 08/02/2011, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Nedser

Actually, Sammon scored only 2 goals in his first 2 seasons in the SPL (in 42 games). He suddenly hit goalscoring form for the first time in his career about 6 months ago, but you can hardly correlate that with his arrival in the SPL.

Are you being serious? Walters has scored a grand total of 3 Premiership goals in 23 games. Prior to that, he scored a total of 30 goals in 4 full seasons in the Championship. He was virtually ever present in the last 3 of those seasons, yet only got his goal tally into double figures once (when he scored 13 goals in 2007-2008).

Prior to that, he achieved nothing. When he was the same age as Stokes is now, he spent the season at Wrexham in the 4th tier of English football, and scored 5 goals in 38 games. And that was the best season of his career up until that point.

Walters is a journeyman, who has already most likely reached his peak. I have nothing against him, but if he is the future of our striking options we have very little to look forward to.

He'll probably score a hat trick tonight now though!

This wee exchange just illustrates how you can dress-up/present the stats in whatever way you see fit.
Personally I think its clear there is more long-term potential in Stokes, seeing as he is a penalty box goal-getter, as opposed to the more physical hold-up/flick-on merchants like Walters, Best, Folan etc that seem to be easier to get a hold of. That said I'm not a massive fan of Stokes but he has been giving me something to think about recently with his developing partnership with Hooper. They seem to be working on a very good understanding and Stokes' future with Ireland might hinge on him 'clicking' with Doyle or whoever he is partnered with. Playing the lone role, or getting shifted out wide he looks pretty rubbish.

**paul_oshea** · 08/02/2011, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by Cymro

Haven't a clue who you're talking about.

http://www.faw.org.uk/teams/player/412

this guy with cardiff, ive seen him twice and read a few comments about him before, from what i heard he is a hot prospect. When i saw him he was very good particularly against england.

I hoped he was irish thats why i was enquiring about him. I thought i saw somewhere his grandfather was irish.

who do you email in the fai about possible players btw?

**paul_oshea** · 08/02/2011, 12:40 PM

Am I the only one looking forward to this game? I cant wait, its a shame that mccarthy couldn't be there in midfield along with clarke and coleman, but at least we now know taht with these two featuring it means we will more than likely see at least 1 of them against macedonia next month if both perform well.

BOT i think you are being slighly unfair on best, thats how we played him. He seems to have a decent eye for goal and finish if in the position.

**paul_oshea** · 08/02/2011, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Really. Some people on here know even less about the game than even Trapattoni.

Now that is funny

**Noelys Guitar** · 08/02/2011, 1:08 PM

He's sticking with Whelan and either Green or Gibson (Fahey must be wondering what he did wrong). Not good. Whelan badly at fault (along with Given) for Russia's first goal in Dublin. Badly at fault for Slovakia's goal in Slovakia. The player has gone backwards from his initial good games under Trap. Green went off injured against Slovakia and we immediately looked a better team when Fahey came on for the rest of the first half of that game. Gibson requires too much time on the ball and disappears from games. Trap could have picked him ahead of Whelan and Green in previous but chose not to. The team to start against Macedonia is likely to be the one we see tonight with Keane replacing Walters and McGeady replacing Coleman. I don't believe that team is good enough to beat Macedonia. Not with that 2 from 3 in central midfield. They slow down the rest of the team.

**Charlie Darwin** · 08/02/2011, 1:12 PM

Fahey started against Slovakia - Gibson came on for Green and I don't agree that we looked better after.

**drummerboy** · 08/02/2011, 1:13 PM

Originally Posted by Nedser

As pointed out on other threads in recent days, you're judging Stokes on "failures" when he was a teenager. He's still only 22, and has been in great form for the past year and a half. Yes, only in the SPL, but as I mentioned in response to someone else making that point, Robbie Keane has also pretty much only scored in the SPL in the last two years. Does that mean Robbie is somehow sh1t? No.

Regarding Stokes being dropped on Sunday, you're correct he was left out. It seems that twice in a row at Ibrox Lennon has opted to play with just 1 up front, and Stokes has been omitted. I think it's clear that's a tactical decision rather than a reflection on Stokes' ability or form though.

I find it absolutely bizarre that Jon Walters is starting and Stokes isn't in the squad. I think it's becoming clear that Stokes is another player who Trap just doesn't like. That may well be down to his reputation for having an attitude problem, but again that seems to have mainly been an issue when he was a teenager. I think it's a real shame, as Stokes has the potential to be a class act. Jon Walters is already 27 and has had a very nondescript career, so I can't say he strikes me as a great prospect for the future.

Going on your reckoning, Adam Rooney, Richie Foran and Conor Salmon should also be in the panel. Anyway in my opinion Stokes isn't much better than any of them; though his ego is a lot bigger.

**paul_oshea** · 08/02/2011, 1:17 PM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Fahey started against Slovakia - Gibson came on for Green and I don't agree that we looked better after.

I actually thought that green got stuck in far more than fahey in those first 27 minutes. he might have lost the ball, but he won it far more too. He was trying to get involved making tackles etc.