Junior League Champions Cup

**historynut** · 02/01/2011, 5:30 PM

Just wondered if its ever been proposed of having a Junior League Champions cup, in that each champion of a county premier junior league entered the following season a knock-out cup, either tottally nationalised, or innitially regionalised as in provincial. .

**ponyobrien** · 02/01/2011, 5:48 PM

That could be expensive for junior clubs with the distance involved. There could easily be an overnight stay

**lfc at heart** · 06/01/2011, 9:51 PM

I think its a great idea

**cufc champions** · 07/01/2011, 10:28 AM

the idea is great in theory, in munster if you win your league you go into the munster senior cup which bar thesenior and semi pro teams is essentially what you are proposing and then the winners of munster go onto represent them in an all ireland series, if you intergrate the munster senior cup into this ie last two junior teams left in competition play each other in munster final then this could be a runner as it would only need 2-3 extra games per team.

**Longshanks** · 07/01/2011, 10:34 AM

Or how about the 4 provincial winners of the junior Cups playing each other over a weekend in a nuetral venue with a sponsored prize of a trip away for the winners( a la the AUL)

**historynut** · 22/11/2011, 9:13 AM

So this appears to have come to the fore in Munster, with the introduction this season of the Junior Champions cup at the expense of Junior clubs entry into the Munster Senior Club.

2010/11 Munster FA Senior Cup winners Carrick United a Junior Classed club, though in classifacatio only, but could not the same be said of Clonmel Town, St Michaels, Pike Rovers and Killarney Celtic to name probably the best examples with no doubt other.
The Munster Senior Cup (apart from FAI Cup) was no doubt the only occasion where so called "Junior" clubs could be pitted against apparently higher level clubs.
Is the introduction of this new tournement a first step in possibly shaking up the system with a long term target of an Munster Junior Champions League ?

Only in recent days has the Barcelona President stated that the English Prem should be reduced thus freeing saturdays for a potential Barcelona v Man Utd saturday fixture, withhout thinking who the in my oppinion who the likes of Everton, Fulham Bolton etc and other non quailfiers are going to play. Is someting similar not now happening on a smaller scale in Munster.

Is not now the time for a complete overhaul of Soccer and reclassifacation , and in short introduction of a Pyramid system.

What are the differances between Intermediate and Junior status ? Maybe once upon time Intermediate was semi-pro and clubs had their own enclosed grounds, Junior was what may have been deemed amatuer and played on "park pitches". Have surely those days not gone.
No doubt the clubs mentioned above as best examples with no doubt others not only with performances and facillities have outgrown their apparent "JUNIOR STATUS".
Cost and no doubt the mentallity of rather be a big fish in a small pond, are reasons given for not moving up a level to the next level of Intermediate football ie the Munster Senior League. Is there a differance between the cream of Munster Junior clubs and Munster Intermediate ? Results and performances in recently past Munster Senior Cups would suggest not.

Clubs are not going to be inclined to want to jump to Intermediate with 3 Divisions and starting in Div 2. But an introduction of a MSL provincial league must be the next step. Correct me if I'm wrong but in reallity apart from Mallow, Fermoy & Youghall the MSL is a Cork Metropoitan area league.
Historically at different times Pike, St Michaels, Clonmel, Cahir, Tralee, Killarney, Shannon Town and Tycor(Waterford) have participated. What for now a league with the likes of those competing against each other.

In short form a Munster Povincial league, give it same status as current MSL, have a play-off for overall Super MSL champions, and possibly in time take top 6 of each respective league to form a MSL super League.

Suggested teams for Munster Provincial League, -
Avenue Ennis, Pike Rovers, Abbeyfeale, Tralee, Killarney, Nenagh, St Michaels, Clonmel Town, Carrick United, Kinsale, and switch from MSL Fermoy, Mallow and Youghall and possibly Bandon.
Do others agree with this suggestion ?

**cufc champions** · 22/11/2011, 11:05 AM

I wouldn't be in favour of it, We are relatively recently only established ourselves as a decent Junior club, winning our first Premier League 12 years ago. How do you propose Relegation/Promotion. This could also be deterimental to the local leagues and will lead to a decrease in the standard of football. Players may also not want the travel imposed on them just for league games and may opt to leave the likes of Carrick et al to go to other Junior sides.

**balls** · 22/11/2011, 11:16 AM

historynut you have left the greatest junior club of all out of your list in fairview rangers. i dont think your idea would work as there are only 5 elite junior clubs in munster pike fairview saint michaels clonmel town and carrick. maybe these could go munster senior league premier but the other teams you mentioned mainly the desmond league and clare league tems would not be competitive and are better off staying where they are. before any other junior clubs jump down my throat on paper this season the 2 best junior sides in munster are tramore and janesboro but i just counted the above 5 clubs as elite cause of there record over past 15 years consistently year in year out

**cufc champions** · 22/11/2011, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by balls

historynut you have left the greatest junior club of all out of your list in fairview rangers. i dont think your idea would work as there are only 5 elite junior clubs in munster pike fairview saint michaels clonmel town and carrick. maybe these could go munster senior league premier but the other teams you mentioned mainly the desmond league and clare league tems would not be competitive and are better off staying where they are. before any other junior clubs jump down my throat on paper this season the 2 best junior sides in munster are tramore and janesboro but i just counted the above 5 clubs as elite cause of there record over past 15 years consistently year in year out

I agree with the Tramore bit could well go far in Munster and FAI this year,

**historynut** · 22/11/2011, 5:33 PM

Fully accept arguement re Fairview and possibly to a degree Ballynanty.
Please bear in mind this is conjecture - I am basically stating that the time is surely coming when so called "Junior Clubs" are outgrowing their nests.
During the summer passed Killarney Celtics ground on a number of occasions and have noted its development,stands ec, have wondered how long before they may persue Dynamos path ?
Take a look at post's in Prem section re 16 team league, surely a complete overhaul from bottom as well as top and sort this differance between Junior and Intermediate out.

**balls** · 22/11/2011, 6:53 PM

if they were going to go with a 16 team premier league of ireland , that would obviously mean scrapping the 1st division and then regionalise your provinces into a more structured intermediate tier with promotion to loi guaranteed for winners. this may work, in munster for example you would hope cork city, limerick and waterford would be in top 16. Have a div 1 then intermediate in munster my opinion of top 10 teams for this would be
Cobh Ramblers
Tralee Dynamoes
Rockmount
Avondale
Douglas Hall
Pike Rovers
Carrick
Fairview Rangers
Saint Michaels
Clonmel Town
The above 10 i would select i watch a good bit of league of ireland football as well as munster senior league so think its a fair reflection of standard in munster the 5 junior clubs included are big clubs with great teams, facilities, history and underage structure.
winner of each provence then plays of in semis and final and one team then goes league of ireland each year. leinster and munster would be strongest provences obviously but if the 1st division was gone connaught would be bolstered by Salthill devon, mervue, castlebar etc.Ulster has its own intermediate league an although standard not as good as lsl or msl im sure would still be competitive