Celtic Cup thread

[Colbert Report]

Foley is not getting anywhere near the first team.

[paul_oshea]

I'm less and less convinced by Trap and his obvious blindspots, but I'm inclined to take his McCarthy reasoning on face value. At least Clark, Coleman and Wilson are in! Best & Stokes at least show that someone is paying attention to current form.

There's a great chance to make Foley, Clark, Wilson, Gibson and a cople of others mainstays of this team and there are enough freshish faces in the squad to give us the new blood we need, but I fear the teams will be same old, same old again.

How can you say that stutts, when he has clearly shown double standards, by including reid and whelan who were injured in the past?

Its somewhat disappointing(again) about mccarthy, i mentioned before about familiarity in the way trap wants people to operate and learn, hence he has these development sessions at the end of the season to ingrain his ideas and style in players. Most people laughed at my suggestion, yet people are saying the exact same now. this was the real ample time to include him and "learn" him. People will say traps method is he only includes those he trusts and have adapted to his style for the "betterment" of the team and he wont pick them for the important games if they haven't been involved before. He picked 29 players, having mccarthy over learning like 10 other of these who probably wont feature, and for those who lack game time, as he does, the training would have helped him. This gives people excuses to back trap and say all hail, when he doesn't include players in the important games. We will not see mccarthy in the home game against macedonia. Whats even more worrying is he thinks we are fine with the solutions for midfield we already have "but we will continue to follow him". Now if anybody cant read between the lines what "follow" him means, ill give a hint, his lack of selection has little to do with being injured.

Its interesting to see the slow but gradual changing of mindsets on the forum though.

[paul_oshea]

The other thing that has ticked me off is the bit about "we see him as this and that", to me speaks somewhat of arrogance and an inability to see that other esteemed colleagues haven't as good a judgement as he does. Lets take the coleman thing, 3 goals in his last 5 games and 1 assist i think. Our best right winger at the moment yet he doesn't get picked for that position. You pick your in form players regardless of their position if thats where they are excelling. Now the other way of looking at this is some sort of contentment, Trap is happy with what we have, so lets not change things, even if changing it for something better is an option. Trap could also play the balance game, we need to breed and develop more options for the overall balance of the team. Which in fairness to him he has done in the past. Yet this contradicts his idea of picking the players who are playing week in week out. There are so many contradictions in his selections that its hard to pinpoint what his thought process is. But there is no excuse for not picking your best form players, in their best positions. And their best positions can only be those that they are currently playing in.

[Stuttgart88]

I would play this team:

---------------------Westwood------------------

Foley ---------O'Shea -------- Dunne (c)--------Clark

-----------------------Wilson-------------------

Coleman --------------Fahey ------------McGeady

-----------------Long -------- Doyle-------------

Sub: Given, St Ledger, S Kelly, Gibson, Whelan, Treacy, Keane, Best, Stokes

To me that's an exciting team and rewards those who deserve it, and punishes those who deserve it.

Interesting XI alright and I'd be happy to see it. Duff is in my first XI any day, but he's never fit when it counts so it makes sense to play friendlies without him. I think I'm one of the few here who actually believes in Gibson, but Fahey did very well in Slovakia and deserves the recognition. I'd have Hunt on the bench.

[tetsujin1979]

But there is no excuse for not picking your best form players, in their best positions. And their best positions can only be those that they are currently playing in.

Kevin Foley has played as a right winger, and sometimes as central midfielder, in recent weeks. Would you play him there?

[shakermaker1982]

Spot on Paul. Coleman is our best right winger at this moment in time and should be played there next month. His comments yesterday suggest to me that Coleman will be on the bench because we couldn't risk him at RB because of Bale. O'Shea will be at RB and Lawrence in front of him. Lawrence is a decent player and has done well for us but he is s l o w and we need to look at other options when the opportunity arises. We don't have any proper pace in the current starting 11 (unless Long starts) and Coleman would give us another outlet to counter quickly if needed.

Just look at our so called Trap best 11. It worries me greatly....

Given - unused sub at City
O'Shea - back from injury but Rafael is now number 1 RB at United
Kilbane - Plays in League 1 as a midfielder
Dunne - finally finding some form after a horrific start to season
St Ledger - so so
Duff - starting to play well again thank God
McGeady - mid season break
Whelan - Sub for Stoke
Green - dropped for Forest game
Keane - Sub for Spurs
Doyle - struggling for goals

Coleman and Long are absolutely buzzing right now. Both should be starting IMO.

[Stuttgart88]

How can you say that stutts, when he has clearly shown double standards, by including reid and whelan who were injured in the past?

Just simply because he's been out for so long and is only just back. It'd p1ss off his club and the player no end if he got injured, even in training - which has happened a few of our players on Irish duty.

If Trap is indeed so stubborn that he's ignoring McCarthy, our best midfield prospect since Keane, because of what happened 9 months ago, then he can go fcuk himself. But, as I say, I'm inclined to accept it on face value. Didn't Wilson pull out of a squad too on flimsy grounds? He's in.

[shakermaker1982]

Kevin Foley has played as a right winger, and sometimes as central midfielder, in recent weeks. Would you play him there?

Coleman has played right wing week in week out since end of September. That's a little bit different to a player (Foley) having to fill in for his team because of injuries/suspensions.

[Noelys Guitar]

If he continues to start Green, Kilbane and to a lesser extent Whelan then the crowd are going to turn on him. The tactics Trap employed in the away game to Slovakia showed he is not thinking on his feet. Instead he has a "game Plan" which he refuses to change no matter how poor the opposition are. Foley has been the the best Irish central midfielder in the Premiership in the last two months bar none. He was excellent away to Liverpool and in the Wolves home game against Chelsea. And yet he is unlikely to even get a run out. This is a bigger worry than McCarthy not getting picked.

[paul_oshea]

Kevin Foley has played as a right winger, and sometimes as central midfielder, in recent weeks. Would you play him there?

you took that out of context. Best player in that position

[paul_oshea]

Just simply because he's been out for so long and is only just back. It'd p1ss off his club and the player no end if he got injured, even in training - which has happened a few of our players on Irish duty.

If Trap is indeed so stubborn that he's ignoring McCarthy, our best midfield prospect since Keane, because of what happened 9 months ago, then he can go fcuk himself. But, as I say, I'm inclined to accept it on face value. Didn't Wilson pull out of a squad too on flimsy grounds? He's in.

I wouldn't necessarily say its definitely one thing stutts. I think he also sees him as a player that doesn't suit his adaptation of how this team plays.

[paul_oshea]

We don't have any proper pace in the current starting 11 (unless Long starts) and Coleman would give us another outlet to counter quickly if needed.

Thats another interesting point I didnt mention. Trap always likes the italian style of defend defend, and counter quickly, hence why he uses mcgeady and he has said the same in the past. Coleman is ideal for this. Mcgeady isn't even technically a defender, coleman is, surely that in itself would completely fit in with this scenario. Again another complete contradictory example. Im really begining to wonder about the whole thing. At least he is consistent with his bizzare, random contradictory remarks and assessments.

[paul_oshea]

Just simply because he's been out for so long and is only just back. It'd p1ss off his club and the player no end if he got injured, even in training - which has happened a few of our players on Irish duty.

If Trap is indeed so stubborn that he's ignoring McCarthy, our best midfield prospect since Keane, because of what happened 9 months ago, then he can go fcuk himself. But, as I say, I'm inclined to accept it on face value. Didn't Wilson pull out of a squad too on flimsy grounds? He's in.

But he did it with reid in the past. Andrews in the past. Oshea this time(who might not even get to play this week with rafal back from suspension and therefore technically wont be as fresh or fit as mccarthy if he plays from now).

[paul_oshea]

If he continues to start Green, Kilbane and to a lesser extent Whelan then the crowd are going to turn on him. The tactics Trap employed in the away game to Slovakia showed he is not thinking on his feet. Instead he has a "game Plan" which he refuses to change no matter how poor the opposition are. Foley has been the the best Irish central midfielder in the Premiership in the last two months bar none. He was excellent away to Liverpool and in the Wolves home game against Chelsea. And yet he is unlikely to even get a run out. This is a bigger worry than McCarthy not getting picked.

Its not really because mccarthy, coleman and foley cases come under the same assessment.

Can someone merge my posts? Sorry i reply on android and its a balls...

[EalingGreen]

Spot on Paul. Coleman is our best right winger at this moment in time and should be played there next month. His comments yesterday suggest to me that Coleman will be on the bench because we couldn't risk him at RB because of Bale.

If Trap is going to select/not select Coleman on the basis of the threat from Bale, then Trap clearly hasn't done his homework.

Bale injured his back in the first half away to Everton on Jan.5th, struggling on until 58th minute, when he had to go off. He wasn't even on the bench for Spurs next game (FA Cup v Charlton), since Harry was "nursing him" for the following game (EPL home v Man U, 16th). Although Bale played the 90, he clearly looked v. subdued during the game. Then away to Newcastle (EPL on Sat.22nd), he pulled up in obvious pain after 5 minutes, going off in the 11th. After the game, Harry admitted they were worried that his injury may be more serious than first thought. However, it is notable that he started v Newcastle at LB (Assou-Ekotto injured), with new signing Pienaar in Left Midfield.

Between now and the ROI/Wales game, Spurs are away to Fulham (FAC), and away to Blackburn & home to Bolton (EPL). I severely doubt Bale will play against Fulham; indeed he may not feature too much in the others, if both Pienaar and A-E are available..

Worse, immed. after the ROI game on 8th, Spurs have four savage games in 14 days: Sunderland (A), AC Milan (A), Blackpool (A) and the Arse (H). I've no doubt Harry will do everything he can to have Bale fit for those games. Therefore I would be astonished if Bale travelled to Dublin. I would be even more surprised if Trap was unaware of all this - OK, he may not be a Spurs fan like me, but considering how much he's being paid, he can surely afford to have the English papers delivered...

P.S. As for Coleman, I was at the Everton/Spurs game, where he was truly excellent. Fair enough, a youngster like him must be unlikely to carry his current form right the way through a whole season until the Euro Qualifier game in June, so he might not be a real option by then. But he's absolutely flying at the moment, so what harm can there be in picking him to start against Wales, whether FB or MF, with Macedonia in mind?

Even to bring him on from the bench would be a bizarre waste (imo).

[shakermaker1982]

EG - Harry hasn't really looked after Bale this season and has ran him into the ground. I'm not surprised Bale is starting to fall apart. However if Bale does make a full recovery then you'd hope Bale would turn up for Gary Speed's first squad. Harry might do a Fergie and say Bale has picked up another knock of course just before the players depart for duty but you'd think that if Bale is fit he'd want to meet up with his new manager? I'd like to see him play of course, it would be a good test for our right hand side to see how they would cope.

Re Coleman I agree with you 100%. Coleman would be a breath of fresh air to a team which is running out of ideas and has regressed since the France game. However I fear our manager has other ideas....

[paul_oshea]

Re Coleman I agree with you 100%. Coleman would be a breath of fresh air to a team which is running out of ideas and has regressed since the France game. However I fear our manager has other ideas....

Or, has no other ideas.....

[SwanVsDalton]

How can you say that stutts, when he has clearly shown double standards, by including reid and whelan who were injured in the past?

I take your point but I don't think you can compare selections from the start of his tenure to now. Trap came in, clearly had little clue about players, picked some and stuck with them, regardless of injuries. Now he knows the players better and has many more options - even if McCarthy's better than nearly all of them.

As Geysir pointed out, McCarthy's just back from injury and I'd rather wrap him in cotton wool (and avoid a Meyler scenario) with the proviso he'll be picked next time, if fit. So, as with Stutts, I'm taking Trap at face value. If he doesn't get picked when 100% fit, then different story.

As for the Coleman thing, didn't Trap say he saw him primarily as a right back about four/five months ago? Is there any indication he might have changed his mind since? Will be interesting to see, but I just want him to start.

[EalingGreen]

EG - Harry hasn't really looked after Bale this season and has ran him into the ground. I'm not surprised Bale is starting to fall apart.

Rather harsh on Harry, on three counts.

First, it is Harry who has turned Bale from a "promising young Full Back" as recently as 18 months ago, to a top quality Left Midfielder today.
Second, if you were in Harry's position i.e. "must-win" games following thick-and-fast since August, would you have the balls to leave him out? Anyhow, from what I've seen, Bale's current injury only occurred at the beginning of this month - he was full of running before then.
Third, having bought Pienaar as soon as he could in the window, Harry will be able to rest Bale.

However if Bale does make a full recovery...

Possible, I suppose, though 17 days is not a lot of time, even for a minor injury. Anyhow, whether genuinely injured or merely suffering from "Fergusonitis", I would lay good odds on Bale not being in Dublin.

you'd hope Bale would turn up for Gary Speed's first squad... ...you'd think that if Bale is fit he'd want to meet up with his new manager?

By the way Bale was talking recently about "Team GB" being his best chance of playing in a major international tournament etc, it's clear he is no misty-eyed dreamer. Which is not to say that he doesn't care about playing for Wales etc, but eg Giggs was patriotic enough and how many friendlies did he ever play for Wales, once established in the team? Three? Four?
As for Bale impressing his new manager etc, what is Speed going to do if Bale pulls out of the ROI game in unlikely circumstances? Never pick him again? Hardly...

Re Coleman I agree with you 100%. Coleman would be a breath of fresh air to a team which is running out of ideas and has regressed since the France game. However I fear our manager has other ideas....

I could well be wrong, but I think Coleman (and other youngsters like McCarthy?) are unlucky "victims" of Trap's overall strategy for the team, on two counts.

First, it must be fairly obvious to Trap that the basic quality of the players at his disposal is inferior to what he's normally used to in Italy etc. Moreover, he hasn't got the time to work with them in training to make them better players, as he would with a club.

Second, there is a decent chance that he won't still be in charge after 2012, whether voluntarily or otherwise. Therefore he's not going to waste time developing youngsters like Coleman, for the sake of his own successor.

Consequently, he may be hoping that he can compensate for his core players' basic deficiencies by consistently sticking to the same, familiar selection/formation/tactics etc which have always served him well in the past.

Of course, one manager's "consistency" is another's "rigidity"....

[punkrocket]

Apologies if mentioned before but does anyone know if there are to be any tickets at the ground for the upcoming Scotland game or is it ticketmaster only?