My guess is that the rationale behind England's participation in this proposed tournament is as follows.Originally Posted by Junior
1. They wouldn't normally be interested at all, since they have a huge debt to pay off (Wembley etc) and they think they can make more money from home friendlies against "foreign" opposition than they can against the other Home nations (esp as they have to play half such games in Belfast/Cardiff/Glasgow).
2. However, they have screwed up* their previous (long-time) sponsorship with Nationwide and have had to cast around to find a replacement - in this case, Vauxhall.
3. Vauxhall realise they have a strong hand to play, so one of their "demands" is a revival of the British Championship, since they are also now sponsoring the other 3 Associations.
4. Therefore if England are forced to participate, they are likely digging in their heels over it being a one-off, whilst using the fact of their 150th Anniversary on 2013 as their pretext.
This is also why I suspect that ROI will not be invited to participate, despite the FAI's desperatio... er, eagerness, since a fifth team would only clog up the fixture calendar even more, including depriving England of one more free date for a friendly against Spain or Germany or whoever.
* - When the contract with Nationwide was up for renewal in early 2010, the FA demanded an increase in the rate - apparently in anticipation that the sponsorship rights would be more valuable/sought after following England's triumphant participation in the World Cup Finals! Vauxhall must have been p1ssing themselves over that one, whilst whoever is in charge of Sponsorship at Nationwide must be heartily relieved!
Correct. Remember, it is not just the gate money which must be considered (and I would guess that eg England's next home friendly vs Ghana will attract as big a crowd as NI or Wales would). You also need to factor in the TV rights, which reside with the team hosting such a game. NI only have a population of 1.8m, Wales 3m(?) and even Scotland only 5m. Worse still, subscribers in those countries already get such games "thrown in" free by SKY or BBC!
Compare that with a game against Turkey, which has a football-mad population of 70million-odd.
Do not assume that any such tournament will be hosted by england at Wembley, since it almost certainly won't. At best, they will host it so that their three games vs Scot/Wales/NI will be at Wembley (plus ROI if participating), with the games between the other three (four) farmed out to smaller grounds in London/the regions.
Remember, broadcasters will not want to televise 5,000 fans at Wembley for NI v Wales, when it would look rather better eg at Loftus Road etc.
Also, the FA has difficulty enough with the local Brent residents as it is, who complain bitterly about the ever-increasing number of matches at Wembley disrupting their lives etc.
Further, I am sure Vauxhall will want to see the tournament spead out amongst the four home Nations, so that they can reap the benefit of publicity etc right across the UK, whilst inviting their regional Dealers/Suppliers/Employees etc to their local venue.
Last edited by EalingGreen; 14/01/2011 at 1:05 PM.
Although I won't be attending myself, I want NI to win because we have a victorious run to maintain against you lot.
OK, it's only a one match run, but it's important nonetheless...
I might have known.
For whenever I see one of your posts, I invariably think "Petty"...
What eagerness the FAI have for the proposed tournament in 2013 is not for the tournament per se, but for the prospect of playing England. As your youtube video shows, matches against NI wouldn't attract the crowds. And everybody knows that the FAI needs to fill the stadium.
Of course the England game would be the "Big One" for the FAI.
But if games against NI (and Scotland/Wales) would be so unattractive or financially unrewarding for the FAI in 2013, then why are they hosting games against those self-same opponents in 2011?
Last edited by EalingGreen; 14/01/2011 at 1:39 PM.
I think longer posts are more your thing.I might have known.
For whenever I see one of your posts, I invariably think "Petty"...
Because they are hosting the games.Of course the England game would be the "Big One" for the FAI.
But if games against NI (and Scotland/Wales) awould be so unattractive or financially unrewarding for the FAI in 2013, then why are they hosting games against those self-same opponents in 2011?
You are assuming that England will be hosting all the games in such a tournament, which I think presumptious (see my post #163).
For even if they are the "major player" of the four/five participants, any such tournament is NOT solely within the gift of the FA to determine - if nothing else, Vauxhall and the TV companies will have a huge say in the matter, since their funding will be at least as important a factor as gate receipts in determining the final, overall revenue.
In which case I strongly suspect that they and the other Associations will be lobbying hard for a tournament of two homes and two aways for each of the five participants (equivalent to the old British Championship of four teams).
No, I was referring to the forthcoming games in 2011. If the FAI were to be involved in the tournament in 2013, I'm sure they'd be pushing hard for the fixture against England to be played in Dublin.
English national team fixtures created in order to celebrate the 150th anniversary of the FA, are hardly going to be played outside of England, let alone Wembley.
That wouldn't necessarily be the case if the tournament is viewed as a revival of a former tournament's format with the addition of a special guest team.
Hmmm.......perhaps.
Though, given its status as a one-off event, I just can't see any other eventuality. But hey, you never know!
Except that these games are NOT being "created in order to celebrate the 150th anniversary of the FA".
They have been suggested by Vauxhall, with the support of the other three Associations they sponsor, since it fits neatly with their UK-wide marketing strategy. I personally have no doubt that in normal circumstances, England would not be interested in such a tournament, however they cannot afford (literally!) to alienate their generous new sponsor.
Therefore I suspect the FA might be persuaded to go along with it, so long as it doesn't commit them permanently. And they can "justify" their participation by calling it part of their 150th etc, safe in the knowledge that they won't be expected to have to repeat it for their 152nd, 154th, 156th etc.
Beyond that, there is doubtless a great degree of "horse-trading" going on between the FA on the one hand, and Vauxhall (plus the 3 other FA's) on the other. As I see it, England may hold out to be the sole hosts, should they calculate that that would prove most lucrative for them.
However, it may prove more lucrative to stage the tournament as before i.e. home games shared out between the four. In which case, you can bet your bottom dollar that Scotland will play England at Wembley, and possibly also NI, but less likely Wales (Eng and Wales are currently in the same Euro qualifiers group, and the 73k Millennium, or even the 30k Cardiff City Stadium, would be more suitable than the 90k Wembley for that.).
How can it be a revival of the British Championship if it contains a non-British team?
More so if it is hosted by one of the five Associations, in a clear departure from previous practice?
My guess is that if it is just a straight (one-off) revival, it will called something like the "Vauxhall British Championship", with England giving it some extra "150th. razamatazz" for the sake of appearances. (For example, they could kick-off the tournament by playing Scotland at home, in a recreation of the first ever international football game).
Besides, a revived BC need not preclude them also staging additional events to celebrate their Anniversary, such as an England vs the Rest of the World game, or a 1 week mini-tournament eg against the last 3 World Champions, as a warm up to Brazil 2014 etc.
As for devising a new event to include ROI, does anyone know exactly from where this suggestion has come? Although neither the FA nor Vauxhall has formally dismissed it, neither do I believe that either of them has proposed inviting the FAI.
Is it not just a case of Delaney trying to wangle an invite to the party for the FAI, both to generate desperately needed revenue, as well as reminding everyone that a Carling Nations Cup in 2015 would be a good idea, too?
After all, when England cancelled this year's trip to Thailand in a post-World Cup bidding fit of pique, Delaney was quick enough to start spinning a replacement game against Team 33 in Dublin etc. Is that proposal still open, or has it been put to sleep?
Last edited by EalingGreen; 14/01/2011 at 3:53 PM.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2011/0111/republic.html
Republic invite to expanded 'home nations'
Tuesday, 11 January 2011 14:46
The English FA has invited the Republic of Ireland to participate in a new look competition which would also include Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.England who originally turned down an invitation to participate in the Carling Nations Cup, are believed to be enthusiastic now about organising the five-team event which may begin in 2013.
The format has yet to be agreed, with a decision still to be made over the duration of tournament and whether or not the event will be staged at one venue.
The Carling Nations Cup involving the Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland & Wales kicks-off next month at the Aviva Stadium, with the concluding matches to be played at the same venue at the end of May.
http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/fa-...ff-488898.html
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...s-2491018.html
"We lost because we didn't win"- Ronaldo
Thanks for those.
Re that first link, I suspect that Alex Horne may be "flying a kite" at this stage, since the FA is in such disarray at the moment, it can be in no position to make firm plans for two months ahead, never mind two years.
As for the second link, it declares:
"Moves to set up the tournament are being driven by the English FA, who are keen to revive it as an extra carrot to convince Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to join them in forming a Great Britain team for the 2012 London Olympics."
Everything I've read on this side of the water indicates that this "Home Nations" tournament is actually being (ahem) driven by Vauxhall, not the FA.
If that is so, it is entirely predictable that the FA will try to use their participation/non-participation to give them leverage over other matters, such as the other three Home Associations' participation in "Team GB" (Olympics).
Yet they've already been rebuffed over this twice this week. The first was when they revealed that an Englishman (Stuart Pearce) will be manager of the team, when it is well known that they had wanted a Scot (Sir Alex Ferguson) for the job: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...RLES-SALE.html.
And second, the FAW have told Gareth Bale that he will not be permitted to play in the Olympics: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...es/9359652.stm
I suspect that this story has a lot more to run over the next few months.
Eng. v.Scotland for traditional reasons or against an AI team for novelty ones would be the only fixtures of interest in any 2013 tournament.
Despite the hand-wringers on here, maybe The FAI/IFA , (Not the fans. Well, oneset would get upset.) would consider playing the Ingles in a one-off fixture ??
As in it would sell out Wembley and should be worth c.£1 million to each of the, er, Irish associations.
And it would be a far more attractive proposition to play a combined side than two separate mediocre games.
Similarly, with a rest of British XI (as in the other 3 'home' associations), well, Gareth Bale* & 10 donkeys??
Talking of which, Bale* 'wants' to play for a GB Olympic team and a Mr.C.Brunt suggested interest also, when mentioned to him over the festive period.
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