A question that I have been asking.Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
The lad picks and chooses his games, much to my annoyance.
Scotland squad:
Gilks (Blackpool), McGregor (Rangers), Turner (Everton); Bardsley (Sunderland), Berra (Wolves), G Caldwell (Wigan), Crainey (Blackpool), Hanley (Blackburn), R Martin (Norwich), Whittaker (Rangers), Wilson (Liverpool); Adam (Blackpool), Bannan (Aston Villa), Brown (Celtic), Forrest (Celtic), McArthur (Wigan), Morrison (West Brom), Robson (Middlesbrough); Commons (Celtic), Mackail-Smith (Peterborough), Maguire (Aberdeen), McCormack (Leeds), Miller (Bursaspor), Naismith (Rangers).
Who was the keeper who played against Scotland? He was a disaster.
To be fair, having the queen over this week has been a huge enough event for this country. I don't think we could handle Kyle Lafferty right after.
Ha, was actually a genuine question. A conspiracy theorist might put forward the notion that Worthington has something against those plying their trade in the League of Ireland, Mannus being the exception. I always felt his ignorance of Paddy McCourt when he was with Derry was hard to understand when he was calling up Irish League players at the same time. Only when he moved did McCourt find himself featuring in Worthington's plans.Are you fishing Danny?
Yes when compared to all the caps Doyle, Fahey and Coleman got while playing in the League of Ireland.
Limerick FC Més que un club
That's a different issue entirely. It would be analogous if Trapattoni had been calling up Irish players playing league football in Malta or the Faroe Islands at their expense. It's not as if Trapattoni has been ignoring players playing in obviously superior leagues to a whole host of ones playing at an inferior level, however. Brian Murphy might have felt aggrieved when Westwood was called in ahead of him a few years ago, but it's not as if Bohs were ever playing at a higher level than Coventry. My point with McCourt was that whilst he was playing great football at Derry and on the receiving end of serious and justified interest from Celtic and the odd Premier League club in England, Worthington was calling up players playing for the likes of Crusaders. As for Mannus, he'd already been "inducted" into the NI squad from his time at Linfield, if you will.
Edit: And when I say "playing at a higher level", I should clarify that I mean regularly, as I'm well aware of how well Murphy was playing in Bohs' Champions League qualifiers, especially away to Salzburg; arguably a higher level of football, albeit very brief.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 17/05/2011 at 9:48 PM.
What I'm saying is, if Worthington felt McCourt wasn't playing at a high-enough level with Derry in the League of Ireland, fair enough, but don't offend the senses by calling up Irish League players at the very same time.
You're fighting a losing battle Danny when you try to apply logic to Nigel Worthington's selection policy.
At least there are signs that the notion that the FAI aren't sole actors in these sagas is getting through to some on OWC:
I would take issue with what appears to be an order of "culpability" there, however. If anything, the influencing factors are probably the wrong way around, with the player, as a cognisant being, being the primary factor in his own personal decision, obviously. Besides, other obvious issues I have include:Who to blame? The following all to blame on some parts:
1. The FAI - for nicking them and as usual begging all you can get until they end up with a team not reflective in any way of their culture and society of their 26 county Republic. In the last 20 years how many times have they fielded an all ROI born and bred 11?? Not many.
2. FIFA - Rules allowing these players to defect for reasons of nationality, yet with no family links to the ROI, never have lived there etc.
3. The NI manager - not going to meet the players at their clubs to explain the set up here, highlight the advantages of the NI team, their team
4. Peer pressure - maybe their mates are sectarian and will try and convince them to defect
5. The IFA - not doing enough to keep the players, not lobbying FIFA/UEFA, refusing to pull out of Nations Cup, not organising things well, no glamour friendlies, bad PR, still talking to the FAI etc...
6. The Players themselves - maybe they dont want to play for us anyway, but in that case they should defect aged 12, not aged 17 - 21.
i) It's not "nicking" or "begging". There's no underhand or illegitimate coercion involved. It's all above board, in line with the rules on the matter and the decision is left entirely up to the player himself.
ii) One might argue that our team does in fact reflect the culture of the Irish nation with its history of mass emigration, its significant diaspora and the uniquely peculiar constitutional status of those in the north-eastern corner of our island.
iii) NI are in no way different from us in regularly calling up players born elsewhere. Their under-age squads are littered with English-born kids. Hypocrisy, I think.
iv) Family links and residency are irrelevant as far as article 15 is concerned. In this instance, it should not be assumed without very, very persuasive argument that they ought to apply over a player's nationality.
I also object wholeheartedly to what is quite an ignorant and offensive notion; that these players have friends (and you may as well include their family in that, as I'm sure they do the same thing) who, by simply urging them to play for Ireland, are, by virtue of that alone, deemed to be sectarian. That just sums the problem up here. It's not as if NI fans and IFA staff haven't been urging the likes of Ferguson to choose NI either - and they call us "the Beggars"?! - but to label these individuals sectarian by virtue of that alone would be daft. If they were prepared to tolerate that northern-born Irish nationals playing for Ireland is a legitimate expression of national identity and that an expression of one's national identity is not in any way sectarian - even if politically-motivated, or however one wants to describe it; what is national identity, after all? - reality might be a bit easier to accept.
As far as the players themselves are concerned, as I've said many times before, they'll have grown up within the northern system by way of geographical circumstance and will probably be looked at and approached by IFA scouts before being mature enough to even comprehend fully the notion of national identity. Rather, they'll most likely just view interest from anyone as a welcome acknowledgement or vindication of their ability and jump at the chance to play a bit of football.
And the solution?
The practicalities of this ought to have been expanded on. It would have made for very interesting reading.Perhaps introducing a Northern Irish passport as the only means of nationality for those born in NI (without Granny/family in ROI, mainland UK etc.) is the only way we will be able to keep these players, and that is an issue for government, sad again that politics rears its head so many times when all we want to do is play football.
As much as Worthington's selection policy leaves a lot to be desired, I do feel a sense of sympathy for him. It's a no-win situation for him really. If he started favouring certain players in squad selections because there was a fear they might switch association in the future, it surely kind of brings the whole idea of putting out the side you consider your strongest at that moment in time into disrepute, and I'm sure significant numbers of NI fans wouldn't really like the idea of him "pandering" to what might be perceived as players whose commitment might otherwise be in question with carrot caps. If anyone, it should surely be FIFA with whom NI fans take out their grievances.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 17/05/2011 at 10:04 PM.
I'm trying to work out who you are now Danny on that forum
Hehe, admittedly, I don't post there as I'd be pretty sure doing so would have my tip-toeing behind enemy lines ground to an abrupt halt.
I have you narrowed down to a shortlist
Yep, Trap flat-out doesn't think LOI football is a good enough standard to prepare a player for the national team. Worthington clearly thinks the Irish League is good enough but ignores players performing to a higher standard mere miles away.
Actually, Worthington doesn't really think the Irish League is a high enough standard.
He caps the best Irish league players in a desperate attempt to put them in the shop window to engineer a move for them out of the Irish League.
Is playing against Turkey in Connecticut really a shop window? Unless he wants to engineer moves to Connecticut.
Do any of the players called up have a chance of getting a move away? Are they any good?
No kidding.
"1: The FAI, ... 6: The players themselves." The disparity between player and chosen association in that example is laughable. Mid-ranking dark horse "sectarian mates...maybe" will be disappointed to have finished below Nigel in the reckoning. The IFA's fifth place finish won't surprise many.
Danny, your updates from OWC are depressing. Can't help reading them but they make me despair!
At this point seems we're all sectarian for supporting ROI and aiding the NI football apartheid. I'm probably a mega-sectarian because I once played a five-a-side in Carndonagh.
Ou-est le Centre George Pompidou?
In my honest opinion - I think some of them could move away but I'd be very surprised if they all did not end up back here again.
Well, there's a lot worse that's just not even worth bothering to highlight, but these might cheer you up because I think they delve so deep into the realm of ridiculousness that they come round again full-circle to the point of actually being quite funny. They're proposed slogans for poster ideas to be held aloft by the one or two NI fans who are attending the game, although they read more and more like weird and deranged tabloid headlines as the list goes down.
Almost like something from that "Down with this sort of thing!" scene with Father Ted or Father Dougal. Or should that be Reverend Ted and Pastor Dougal?DELANEY HANDS OFF NI PLAYERS
HENRY'S HAND SLAPPED YOU FOR STEALING OUR PLAYERS
ROI CEASE AGGRESSION ON NI FOOTBALL
F@*K OFF DELANEY AGGRESSOR
IFA GROW A SET OF BALLS
DELANEY TAKES POTSHOTS AT NI SHARED FOOTBALL FOR ALL
GIVE ROI SECTARIAN RECRUITMENT STRATEGY THE RED CARD
In other news, a residents group near Lansdowne Road is apparently going to protest outside the stadium on the night of the game against the presence of NI fans in Dublin. Haven't they heard of the mass boycott?
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