Celtic Cup thread

[EalingGreen]

If the IFA fanbase doesn't want to support an All-Ireland team, that is their decision and a decision that should be respected by the FAI fan base.

Thank You. (And it's not just the fanbase, btw, it's also the people who play and administer the game in NI, too).

Any chance you could stop there?

However the British Home Championship in its most original format was a competition between the four distinct nations of the then United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. Those four "home" nations were England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. If the English FA are looking to organise a tournament between the four home nations, the four footballing associations that represent those four nations should be involved. Following the partition of the island of Ireland, the IFA assumed the mantle of representing the Irish home nation in the Championship. This perhaps is linked to the fact that the IFA is the first established Irish footballing association, fielded their team under the guise of Ireland for 50 odd years after the split with the FAI, and that the IFA have fielded teams with an All-Ireland representation (even long after the establishment and regardless of the FAI).

Obviously not, then. Oh well.

There are five options open to the English FA as they set about organising the make-up of their tournament;
(a) run a four team competition with the Ireland team as a co-operation between the FAI and IFA.
(b) run a four team competition between the four associations that represent the four distinct nations of England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales.
(c) run a five team tournament that includes both an IFA and FAI team.
(d) run a four team tournament between the four founding associations of the tournament.
(e) realise this tournament will open up a can of worms that is best left alone.

Option (c) is the most likely outcome with option (e) running it a close second.

I might have guessed something like this was coming...

Anyhow, if you are going to speculate on what might/might not happen, you would be advised to get your basic premises right, at least.

First, the BC was not a competiton between "the four nations etc", it was a competition between the representative teams of the four Associations. (And speaking of "representative teams", up until 1950, the IFA's team was drawn from the whole of Ireland, afterwards it was drawn only from NI)

Second, any such tournament is not the property ("theirs") of the FA to organise. Instead, it will be a collaboration between the four British Associations, who will decide between them.

Finally, if the FA doesn't like what the others agree, it is for them to withdraw (as they did with the BC in 1984), or decline to enter (as they did with the Carling Nations Cup). Similarly, it is for any of the other three Associations to decline to participate (just as they all did with "Team GB" for the 2012 London Olympics).

Anyhow, if the four Associations should decide to play each other in 2013 (or whenever), that may properly be termed a revival of the (former) British Championship and it would be appropriate (imo) for the old trophy, currently in the possession of the IFA, to be up for grabs.

If, however, they decided also to invite a fifth Association (namely the FAI), then whatever else, it could NOT be considered to be a revival of the former BC, it would have to be called something else.

As a traditionalist, I would prefer to see the former; also because it would have the side-effect of excluding the (cash-strapped) FAI from participating in a potentially lucrative money-spinner. And a four team/six match tournament might be more likely to be repeated every two or four years(?) than a 5 team/10 match tournament, which I suspect could only be a one-off, due to fixture congestion etc.

That said, if they should come up with a "Five Nations", I would still support NI's participation in it, so long as it wasn't being hosted by the FAI.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Surely this is exactly 'on topic' ??

Even Delaney admitted the CC concept is 'contentious'.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Next time you're in Belfast, why not take a wee dander out to Windsor Avenue, call in at the IFA, and take a look at what it actually says on the trophy?

Isn't that trophy actually in the Hampden, er, trophy room....

[Not Brazil]

Isn't that trophy actually in the Hampden, er, trophy room....

Er, no.

Having lent the Jocks the trophy for display in their museum at Hampden, the IFA, as reigning Champions, got it back in 2005 to be proudly displayed at Windsor Avenue. It remains in Windsor Avenue, just as EG stated.

[SwanVsDalton]

Er, no.

Having lent the Jocks the trophy for display in their museum at Hampden, the IFA, as reigning Champions, got it back in 2005 to be proudly displayed at Windsor Avenue. It remains in Windsor Avenue, just as EG stated.

Propped up beside NI's Tidiest Office 2007 plaque and Darron Gibson's birth certificate.

[Not Brazil]

Propped up beside NI's Tidiest Office 2007 plaque

You've obviously paid a visit.

Deary me - it's a shocker for tidiness

[EalingGreen]

Propped up beside NI's Tidiest Office 2007 plaque and Darron Gibson's birth certificate.

"Father: Unknown"

[geysir]

Second, any such tournament is not the property ("theirs") of the FA to organise. Instead, it will be a collaboration between the four British Associations, who will decide between them.

Freudian slip I would presume or do you really believe the IFA to be one of the 4 British Associations, even if there are only 3.

[Not Brazil]

Freudian slip I would presume or do you really believe the IFA to be one of the 4 British Associations, even if there are only 3.

You may check that "Freudian Slip" out with FIFA in their Statute Definitions.

British Associations: the four Associations in the United Kingdom – The Football Association, The Scottish Football Association, The Football Association of Wales and The Irish Football Association (Northern Ireland).

If your not that hot on numbers, we can do A, B, Cs tomorrow?

[EalingGreen]

Freudian slip I would presume or do you really believe the IFA to be one of the 4 British Associations, even if there are only 3.

I trust you've seen Not Brazil's reply - and been suitably embarrassed...

Anyhow, you're a Republick of Oireland fan, surely if you can have 33 teams in a 32-team World Cup Finals, why shouldn't it be possible to fit four Associations into three?

[The Fly]

Freudian slip I would presume or do you really believe the IFA to be one of the 4 British Associations, even if there are only 3.

The IFA is deemed a British Association by FIFA.


edit: oops! I hadn't scrolled down to see NB's reply.

[The Fly]

"Father: Unknown"

[tetsujin1979]

"Father: Unknown"

that's low

[Dodge]

"Father: Unknown"

And yet we know his religion...

[boovidge]

Can we get back on topic please?

Nope. it's round 72 of Not Brazil, Ealing Green and Gather Round vs Ardeebhoy

*Spoiler alert*

nobody wins.

[Gather round]

Nope. it's round 72 of Not Brazil, Ealing Green and Gather Round vs Ardeebhoy

*Spoiler alert*

nobody wins

Don't be like that, Boo. I'm just waiting for you to suggest a venue for our pre-match pint.

[gastric]

Is it just me who now lives 12000 kms from the centre of my universe, but I really couldn't care less about the game or who wins? Possibly is a win more important to NI as we have have kidnapped all of their players? I am not trying to be controversial, but I would appreciate others' views. Normally I watch every game hoping we win , but due to the political aspect of this game I really don't care less.

[Junior]

Second, any such tournament is not the property ("theirs") of the FA to organise. Instead, it will be a collaboration between the four British Associations, who will decide between them.

Perhaps.

Or perhaps it will be more along the lines of....."Its our birthday, Its our party, we are hosting that party and you can all either come and enjoy the bit of jelly and ice cream you are given or feck off and we wont have a party at all - I couldnt care less either way" (I/Our being the FA for the avoidance of doubt).

[Gather round]

.....

[Gather round]

Possibly is a win more important to NI as we have have kidnapped all of their players?

A whopping one of them has appeared in your senior side so far. Let's not get carried away.

I expect winning the tournament would mean more to Northern Ireland and Wales, because expectations are generally lower. That said, RoI have qualified for one of the last eight tournaments, Scotland none of the last six. Either would be delighted to win it. Obviously you have an advantage as the (relative) form side with three home games.

Normally I watch every game hoping we win , but due to the political aspect of this game I really don't care less

It's international football against your neighbors, so bound to be at least a bit political. Would you be equally uninterested if they were qualifiers against England and NI?

Or perhaps it will be more along the lines of....."Its our birthday, Its our party, we are hosting that party and you can all either come and enjoy the bit of jelly and ice cream you are given or feck off and we wont have a party at all - I couldnt care less either way" (I/Our being the FA for the avoidance of doubt)

I doubt the English FA would do that- they need the money. The Home Nations will be cheaper than Brazil, Germany and Nigeria or likely alternatives.