Celtic Cup thread

[dr_peepee]

Forgot to put my team down (based on that squad selection)

Westwood

Foley Dunne Clark O'Shea

Coleman Wilson Fahey Duff

Long Doyle

Mixture of youth and experience.

I'm personally still not convinced of Fahey in the centre of a midfield four...

[SwanVsDalton]

You championed the case of O'Dea based on his ability to play 2 positions (neither particularly well imo). Ward has played at LB, LW and striker in his premiership and championship career. Kilbane is no longer playing premiership, no longer playing championship and no longer playing LB. Can you explain to me what rationale is employed as to why he should be in the squad for a friendly ahead of Stephen Ward who, while not the best LB in the premiership, is of acceptable/passable quality in that position and is also the most versatile Irish player in the Premiership.

I certainly didn't champion him - I actually said I 'didn't particularly fancy him' and that's not based on his looks - but my main point is he has his hands on a squad berth (like Green and McShane) and in international football it's generally, and often unfairly, up to the omitted to displace the included.

In terms of O'Dea vs Ward, it's not really about versatility as it is about a young player who is a naturally a defender. I think O'Dea's in the squad primarily as a CB, who could fill in at LB at a pinch, and is a natural defender. So I don't see Ward and O'Dea actually going head-to-head for a squad place. As I said above, I think it's more likely to be Duffy, Bruce or maybe O'Halloran taking O'Dea's place.

In terms of Ward getting in the squad at all, he's undoubtedly versatile and I've been particularly impressed with him playing in advanced roles. But at LB he appears suspect to me and not a long term solution to the LB position. Simply playing LB at Prem level isn't a reason enough since there's a lot of question marks over his ability. And unfortunately he may be a victim of his own versatility, because he's not going to get a sniff at LW or up front at the moment.

I will concede I wouldn't have a problem having him in the squad - he deserves a look and it's hard to know what he has to do, though I suspect nailing a starting role in one position (probably advanced) would help. As said, I suspect Trap doesn't rate him.

And as for the LB argument altogether - looks like Clark's in line. He's probably not the long term solution either but he's much better than O'Dea, likely better than Kilbane and actually a natural defender unlike Ward.

I find Traps selection policy, which we are paying a truckload for, to be despicable at worst or lazy at best. His modus operandi is conservative selection, conservative tactics and primitive style aimed at achieving short term success. Only the problem is it hasnt achieved any success unless you count moral victories in the form of 3 draw and a loss to two terrible, if once great, teams. And i dont think that the success element will have changed come the end of this campaign. If that proves to be the case then he needs to go.

If our performances and results don't improve and success doesn't come, then I agree 100% about him going.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm less and less convinced by Trap and his obvious blindspots, but I'm inclined to take his McCarthy reasoning on face value. At least Clark, Coleman and Wilson are in! Best & Stokes at least show that someone is paying attention to current form.

There's a great chance to make Foley, Clark, Wilson, Gibson and a cople of others mainstays of this team and there are enough freshish faces in the squad to give us the new blood we need, but I fear the teams will be same old, same old again.

[Noelys Guitar]

I'm surprised McCarthy has not been picked as he is sure to feature for Wigan in the thier next few games. It will be interesting to see who actually starts against Wales. If Clark, Foley(midfield. Wolves have badly missed him last two games) and Coleman don't start then I will be really ****ed off. The away performance against a really poor Slovakia side means we have to start improving rapidly to even get a second place in this group. That means new blood. I would only guarantee four players their places at this stage. Dunne, O'Shea, Doyle and Duff.

[SwanVsDalton]

Team I'd have out:

Given

Foley Dunne O'Shea Clark

Coleman Gibson Wilson Hunt

Long Doyle

With Coleman and Hunt marauding, I'd stick with Gibson and Wilson to sit and tick it over. Fahey, Best and Westwood on at half-time. Stokes/Walters, Treacy, Kelly and McGeady also get some game time. Suspect Robbie will play though and if he does, just a half please.

[Dunners]

McCarthy should be there even if its just to train with the squad and get familiar with the set up / staff and players.
He is by far our best option in Midfield and was until he got injured our only Midfielder not only playing week in week out
but performing and holding his own against established prem players.
Very dissipointed for the lad. I hope Trap has called him personally to explain his exclusion.

Also were is Maguire? he was invited over as a guest to attend the game and now what , nothing.
Can anyone shed any light on his exclusion.
I'm not saying he's world beater or has been pulling up trees lately but we need to look at alternative
options

[seanfhear]

Given
Westwood

O'Shea
Clark
Coleman
Dunne
St Ledger
Foley
Kilbane
S Kelly
O'Dea
McShane

Wilson
Gibson
Whelan
Green
Lawrence
Hunt
McGeady
Treacy
Duff
Fahey

Keane
Walters
Doyle
Long
Keogh
Best
Stokes

Not too many world beaters there but sure we hav'nt got any. Throw in McCarthy and Wardand the average/mean ability of that squad should'nt be that shabby.

[Noelys Guitar]

Team I'd have out:

Given

Foley Dunne O'Shea Clark

Coleman Gibson Wilson Hunt

Long Doyle

With Coleman and Hunt marauding, I'd stick with Gibson and Wilson to sit and tick it over. Fahey, Best and Westwood on at half-time. Stokes/Walters, Treacy, Kelly and McGeady also get some game time. Suspect Robbie will play though and if he does, just a half please.

No Duff who was outstanding for Fulham on Saturday? And Duff is still a better option than McGeady or Hunt.

[backstothewall]

The squad is very big and looks a bit lop sided, what with 2 keepers, 4 Right backs, 0 LB, and 7 strikers. That said, he could have fixed that by dropping 5-6 players, but why have a night of the long knives for a friendly.

I can see the argument for leaving McCarthy behind for this one, and I'm not sure I rate Ward myself. Not sure what Trap should have done differently. There's an argument for O'Halloran, but he's probably better left to concentrate on his club football and getting a score of games for Coventry under his belt.

I'd go with...


Given
Foley O'Shea Dunne Clark
Coleman Whelan Fahey Duff
-------Keane Long----------

Subs: Westwood, St. Ledger, Wilson, Lawrence, Best, Doyle, Walters

[SwanVsDalton]

No Duff who was outstanding for Fulham on Saturday? And Duff is still a better option than McGeady or Hunt.

I agree but it's a friendly - we know what Duff brings to the table, with Hunt back to fitness I'd give him the start. And with Duff actually in the Fulham side, he doesn't need game time.

[mark12345]

Agree a hundred per cent Dunners. McCarthy should have been there for familiarity purposes. The lad has been out of action for a couple of months and could have used an emotional lift by being invited to the squad to train at the very least. So what if Green or Whelan were left out. We know what Whelan can do, and he's regressed since, and we know what Green can't do.

And also what about Maguire? If he's not selecting him then why was he invited over? Confusing. I don't want to bash Trap too much because there are quite a few good strikers in the squad, but Kilbane, Green, McShane and O'Dea all could have been left out while McCarthy and Maguire should have been included.

It's just irritating when you see the same filler players in the squad time and again.

[Sullivinho]

Trap- on TV3 news a few mins ago.

Said McCarthy was left out because he is just back and that he will continue to 'follow' him and he will get his opportunity in the next game - or something to that effect.

Also hinted that Clarke will get the nod at LB!

http://www.tv3.ie/sport.php

Cheers for that.

He namechecks Clark and Coleman and says it will be "a good opportunity" for them. In relation to McCarthy he says "two times we've looked for him" which I presume means he's been called up twice before only to be ruled out for whatever reason. He cautions against introducing too many young players ("three or four") because losses affect world ranking and in that regard, claims to be upset about the Norway loss. Returns to Clark and says he's played well at left back. "We'll decide Kilbane or Clark". Stresses the importance and influence of senior players like Given and Keane in relation to younger players joining the squad.

We might see a couple of changes (Coleman and Clark?) but that's about it.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Didn't McCarthy p*ss off Trap by pulling out of some earlier squad and now getting the Reid/Ireland treatment??

And Ward should be given a go at L/B. in these Mickey Mouse games, whilst sadly don't think Green is up to international football, except v. the minnows. So a standby squad player at best.
If Trap wants to stick with his dour midfield system, may as well play Whelan and Gibson, when available, there for the rest of the campaign. With Andrews and Wilson as the main cover.
Especially as the first 3 names mentioned don't seem to figure in any plans he has.....

[geysir]

What a load of whingeing cráp written here that McCarthy should be called up, probably some of you would be thinking that Bruce asked too much too soon of Meyler.
I don't know about Ward one way or the other. It's the team Trap picks from who he has in the squad, is what matters.
They look an average enough bunch, out of which probably only Clark and Coleman could make a difference to the first team.
The rest of them are not really that much better or worse than the players who get picked.

[rebelmusic]

No way McCarthy should have been called up. He's JUST back from injury and needs some time to get back into the swing of things.

How Paul McShane was called up is a mystery. He's had feck all starts this season and half the time he isn't even making the bench. No need for him at all.

[Noelys Guitar]

I agree but it's a friendly - we know what Duff brings to the table, with Hunt back to fitness I'd give him the start. And with Duff actually in the Fulham side, he doesn't need game time.

Then why play Dunne, O'Shea etc etc.

[Kingdom]

I would play this team:

---------------------Westwood------------------

Foley ---------O'Shea -------- Dunne (c)--------Clark

-----------------------Wilson-------------------

Coleman --------------Fahey ------------McGeady

-----------------Long -------- Doyle-------------

Sub: Given, St Ledger, S Kelly, Gibson, Whelan, Treacy, Keane, Best, Stokes

To me that's an exciting team and rewards those who deserve it, and punishes those who deserve it.

[Noelys Guitar]

What a load of whingeing cráp written here that McCarthy should be called up, probably some of you would be thinking that Bruce asked too much too soon of Meyler.
I don't know about Ward one way or the other. It's the team Trap picks from who he has in the squad, is what matters.
They look an average enough bunch, out of which probably only Clark and Coleman could make a difference to the first team.
The rest of them are not really that much better or worse than the players who get picked.

Then why pick O'Shea who has also just come back from injury?

[Noelys Guitar]

My Team would be Westwood
O'Shea Dunne St ledger Clark
Coleman Foley Wilson Duff
Long Doyle

[SwanVsDalton]

Then why play Dunne, O'Shea etc etc.

We have more options on the wing/up front than at CB and they deserve game time. If the team features Foley and Clark, as mine does, there's two almost totally new faces that'll need some experience to help bed in. We need to look at as many attacking options as possible while maintaining a good blend of experience and new faces IMO.

Dunne and O'Shea help bring new defenders through, but playing Duff for this friendly doesn't really do anything for us except prevent Hunt/Fahey/McGeady/Treacy from gaining more experience.