Paisley Trying To Convert Catholics...

[SÓC]

Still though, the Pope has no right to get involved in the political affairs of any state.

He didnt, he was openly being a Catholic in a Communist country which denied the people their right to express their faith. He led open air prayers in Poland. It was one factor in the Commies losing their grip, seeing the mass public dis-obidence.

[brendy_éire]

Elected? WHat the hell does that have to do with being Christian? Was Jesus elected? Who was going to fire Jesus if he did a crap job? The Pope is chosen by the Church and IF you believe in all that stuff, then it's God's will.

Isn't everyone, according to Jesus, meant to be equal in the eyes of God? So howcome the Pope has this divine right to govern the Church? The claim of papal infallibility, the pope's word being the word of God, doesn't wash. The whole idea was only thought up after the unification of Italy and the pope's loss of the Papal States. Having lost his territorial power, he needed sometime else to exercise control.
The elitist, theocratical rule of the Pope and his cronies in the Vatican doesn't appear to sit well with Jesus's teachings.

As for working with Reagan and Co., try achieving anything on a global scale without the USA and see how far you get.

So that excuses him for actively working with fascists then?

He didnt, he was openly being a Catholic in a Communist country which denied the people their right to express their faith. He led open air prayers in Poland.

The Catholic Church has always been opposed to any form of socialism (why they loved the idea of Mussolini coming to power in Italy).
As for the current Pope, he used the Catholic Church in Poland to distribute funds to Solidarity, a trade union come political party. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the Solidarity movement, the Pope was wrong to use Church funds to interfere in the political affairs of any state. He has no right to use funds, collected from the ordinary people, to fund political parties. How would you feel if the Church started giving FG money because the Pope didn't like the FF/PD government?

[Lux Interior]

Went to exclusively Protestant schools in the osc....their attempts @ Indoctrination was despicable ...

As a state school teacher (and also a pupil, many years ago), this is clearly a '********' statement "Indoctrination" .... of what .... ? Examples .....

I mean, did the study of Palmerston's foreign policy really turn you in to the bitter ex-pat you seem to have become?

PM me the schools then, Dev, and I'll do a bit of research ......

[lopez]

As a state school teacher (and also a pupil, many years ago), this is clearly a '********' statement "Indoctrination" .... of what .... ? Examples .....

On a different level it's intriguing that you've put your head above the parapet about your job. Won't speak for Dav, but my most memorable moment of 'state' school was when my Scottish woodwork teacher called me - a 13 year old schoolboy - an 'Irish b*stard' in front of the class after f*cking up a pointless w*nk of a bowl I was making. If you fancy it I'll PM you the teacher's name and date of the incident and the school FWIW, as you seem to suggest that teachers are (like priests and policemen to their respective constituencies) beyond reproach. Then you can research away for me too.

[Lux Interior]

On a different level it's intriguing that you've put your head above the parapet about your job. Won't speak for Dav, but my most memorable moment of 'state' school was when my Scottish woodwork teacher called me - a 13 year old schoolboy - an 'Irish b*stard' in front of the class after f*cking up a pointless w*nk of a bowl I was making. If you fancy it I'll PM you the teacher's name and date of the incident and the school FWIW, as you seem to suggest that teachers are (like priests and policemen to their respective constituencies) beyond reproach. Then you can research away for me too.

PM if you wish ..... in no way would I suggest that there are not individuals within the profession with 'agendas', however to conclude that the state school is a mechanism for "indoctrination", as Dev suggests, is stretching the bounds of credibility.

Don't you think?

[lopez]

PM if you wish ..... in no way would I suggest that there are not individuals within the profession with 'agendas', however to conclude that the state school is a mechanism for "indoctrination", as Dev suggests, is stretching the bounds of credibility.

Don't you think?

I'll leave Dav's situation for him to talk about (I assumed his education in NI was in the independent sector which is completely different) but you're right about 'individuals'. Trouble is that if the individuals with their own agendas are prevalent then whatever the state schools stand for become irrelevant.

Things may have changed now but during the era I was in school the seventies I witnessed numerous teachers making racist comments to black and Asian kids from the age of five. Perhaps its not indoctrination but the impression it gives to other kids is quite powerful. This of course doesn't even cover the coursework about history etc. which again is biased (in NI whether in RC schools or non-RC schools).

Ironically, I've always thought that (in England at least) indoctrination was worse in RC schools. Here, the point was to knock out any cultural affinity to your parents homeland in favour of being a good middle-class Brit who is also strongly Catholic. An example of this was the pressure put on my kids to buy poppies by their infant school - which I took up strongly with their headmistress (a nun from Cork). This pressure may have been there in the seventies secular state system but what I hear is no longer the case now.

I'll PM you the name and info - you never know he might have become your headmaster - but there's very little you or I can do about it. At least I wasn't subject to sexual abuse as unfortunately was the case of many other children.

[dortie]

I assume you mean roman catholic and proud

Yep, Roman Catholic and proud. Im also Republican and proud.

Alot of generalisation being posted here.

Good debate though.