Setanta Cup 2011

**Charlie Darwin** · 20/04/2011, 11:39 AM

Well the overall aim should be to get as many fans as possible to the game into a stadium with good facilities. That means a stadium that's convenient for both sets of fans to attend and, assuming the Aviva would be far too big, that means Tallaght. Half the Dundalk away support is based in Dublin anyway. A mutually convenient venue for Cork-Galway would probably still be Tallaght.

**Ezeikial** · 20/04/2011, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Final should clearly be in Tallaght. Rovers get the main stand, Dundalk get the newer stand (as was split last year for Bohs/Pats). Its a great set up for a final in fairness with both fans opposit each other. Dundalk, for all its charms, is a kip.

(For the record I think the Final should always be played in Tallaght now if a Northern team isn't involved)

It would fly totally in the face of sporting fairness if the final was now arbitrarily set for Tallaght after Shamrock Rovers have reached the final.

If Tallaght Stadium had been nominated as the final venue at the outset of the competition that would be acceptable, but to do so now, unless agreement was forthcoming from Dundalk, would go against all principles of fairness.

At this point it should either be a neutral venue, or failing that a toss of a coin to decide between Tallaght and Oriel.

**HulaHoop** · 20/04/2011, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Ezeikial

It would fly totally in the face of sporting fairness if the final was now arbitrarily set for Tallaght after Shamrock Rovers have reached the final.

If Tallaght Stadium had been nominated as the final venue at the outset of the competition that would be acceptable, but to do so now, unless agreement was forthcoming from Dundalk, would go against all principles of fairness.

At this point it should either be a neutral venue, or failing that a toss of a coin to decide between Tallaght and Oriel.

A neutral venue is of course preferable but a cup final should take place in a modern stadium with good facilities. If you can come up with anywhere bar Tallaght for that good luck. A shame they can't just open the lower tier in Lansdowne.

**Ezeikial** · 20/04/2011, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Get the feeling Dundalk will be one of those teams that could beat Rovers 3-0 and then lose 3-0 to galway the following week. Something lacking there, but talent isn't the thing.

I think you are talking about consistency - and that is what most teams aspire to.

Foster has assembled a very talented group of players, but the main challenge he faces are inexperience and the lack of depth in the squad.

Working off a 19 man panel injuries to Bolger, Maher, Osbourne and Bennett have created a lot of difficulties. When you look at the team that finished against Sligo and Cliftonville in the last two matches -
Defence - Michael Hector (18) Nathan Murphy (18)
Midfield - Stephen McDonnell (19) Danny Kearns (19) Keith Ward (20)
Attack - Johnny Breen (20)

Throw in guys in their early 20's such as Simon Madden (22) and Ross Gaynor (23) and the age profile is very young - Colin Hawkins, Jason Byrne and Dean Bennet (when fit) are the elder statesmen in what is probably the youngest squad in the premier division, aside from UCD.

Foster's focus on attacking play is also a double edged sword and can leave the team exposed to conceding too many goals.

A combination of the above means that it is probably not feasible for Dundalk to seriously challenge for the title, but in one-off games Dundalk can beat any team in the league

**harleyleeds** · 20/04/2011, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Well the overall aim should be to get as many fans as possible to the game into a stadium with good facilities. That means a stadium that's convenient for both sets of fans to attend and, assuming the Aviva would be far too big, that means Tallaght. Half the Dundalk away support is based in Dublin anyway. A mutually convenient venue for Cork-Galway would probably still be Tallaght.

Ok I see your point but really no other ground in Dublin capable of holding this?
BTW no way Dublin is mutually convenient to Cork and Galway and again why not Cork?

Thomond park springs to mind.

**harleyleeds** · 20/04/2011, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by HulaHoop

A neutral venue is of course preferable but a cup final should take place in a modern stadium with good facilities. If you can come up with anywhere bar Tallaght for that good luck. A shame they can't just open the lower tier in Lansdowne.

Surely the real shame is that there appears to be only one proper ground in the whole league?

**Ezeikial** · 20/04/2011, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by HulaHoop

A neutral venue is of course preferable but a cup final should take place in a modern stadium with good facilities. If you can come up with anywhere bar Tallaght for that good luck. A shame they can't just open the lower tier in Lansdowne.

Agreed - that both a neutral venue and a modern stadium are both preferable. Ultimately it boils down to which is most important to the Setanta Committee - sporting fairness and even handedness should always win out. It would be a travesty if one club were openly and arbitrarily given an unfair advantage.

If Tallaght were such an obvious choice it should have been nominated as the venue, if 2 LoI clubs were involved, from the outset. It wasn't - neutral venue or toss of a coin are the only realistic options if this competition is to retain any credibility

**Mario** · 20/04/2011, 12:22 PM

If you ever read the particpation rules of the Setanta Cup you'd see that the organising committee have the final say on everything. This rule was put in place to stop the likes of the Pats v Shels bickering that took place in the years before this cup started.

In fairness with its limited access, crumbling terraces etc Oriel Park is a hovel and isnt fit to host a major final.

It will be played in Tallaght not because its Rovers ground but because its best ground available and Setanta will want to have it there for their own reasons, best media facilities, will look the best on TV and most cost efficient for them etc.

**Dunny** · 20/04/2011, 12:24 PM

Indoor 5-a-side, sorted.

**harleyleeds** · 20/04/2011, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Mario

If you ever read the particpation rules of the Setanta Cup you'd see that the organising committee have the final say on everything. This rule was put in place to stop the likes of the Pats v Shels bickering that took place in the years before this cup started.

In fairness with its limited access, crumbling terraces etc Oriel Park is a hovel and isnt fit to host a major final.

It will be played in Tallaght not because its Rovers ground but because its best ground available and Setanta will want to have it there for their own reasons, best media facilities, will look the best on TV and most cost efficient for them etc.

I think the point is it shouldnt be played in Tallaght because its Shamrock rovers ground.

**Mario** · 20/04/2011, 12:26 PM

ps. Dundalk to date have never brought more than 300 to any of their games in Tallaght. Will be interesting to see how many they can bring this time around!

Taking regular attendences into account is standard practice for allocating Cup final tickets in most countries, so that regular fans as opposed to day trippers get to see the game. The tickets for this game should be allocated on the ratio on Dundalks average gates to Rovers average gates, about a 2-1 split Id say!?

**harleyleeds** · 20/04/2011, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Mario

ps. Dundalk to date have never brought more than 300 to any of their games in Tallaght. Will be interesting to see how many they can bring this time around!

Taking regular attendences into account is standard practice for allocating Cup final tickets in most countries, so that regular fans as opposed to day trippers get to see the game. The tickets for this game should be allocated on the ratio on Dundalks average gates to Rovers average gates, about a 2-1 split Id say!?

Why not ban them altogether?

**ger121** · 20/04/2011, 12:30 PM

Tolka would be a good neutral venue for both sides. The pitch looked very good from the highlights of the Monaghan game and I think all the stands are still open.

**PartySaint** · 20/04/2011, 12:33 PM

Windsor Park

I see no problems with that

**Dodge** · 20/04/2011, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by harleyleeds

I think the point is it shouldnt be played in Tallaght because its Shamrock rovers ground.

So far we've had Shels and Linfield both play 'nuetral' finals on their home ground. Not a big deal IMO.

Originally Posted by Mario

If you ever read the particpation rules of the Setanta Cup you'd see that the organising committee have the final say on everything. This rule was put in place to stop the likes of the Pats v Shels bickering that took place in the years before this cup started.

For the record Pats and Shels have never bickered about where any final has been played.

Give each team their owns tand and if they can't sell it with 3/4 days left, open it up to the other side. Toss for home dressing rooms, kits etc

**harleyleeds** · 20/04/2011, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

So far we've had Shels and Linfield both play 'nuetral' finals on their home ground. Not a big deal IMO.

For the record Pats and Shels have never bickered about where any final has been played.

Give each team their owns tand and if they can't sell it with 3/4 days left, open it up to the other side. Toss for home dressing rooms, kits etc

Fair enough but its your opinion you dont seem to be allowing for the fact that it is a big deal to others so if it was a nuetral venue all would be happy yes, as opposed to just some being happy?

**HulaHoop** · 20/04/2011, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by harleyleeds

I think the point is it shouldnt be played in Tallaght because its Shamrock rovers ground.

Is it? Rival fans seem to take great pleasure in pointing out to us it's not our stadium and we're only renting a council owned facility so by that logic Tallaght is a neutral venue

Joking aside, Ezeikial would it make any difference if Dundalk got the home dressing rooms, fans in the main stand and wore their home kit in a Tallaght final?

**Hitman** · 20/04/2011, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

So far we've had Shels and Linfield both play 'nuetral' finals on their home ground.

City and Glentoran at the Cross in 2008 as well.

**Charlie Darwin** · 20/04/2011, 1:17 PM

Originally Posted by harleyleeds

Ok I see your point but really no other ground in Dublin capable of holding this?
BTW no way Dublin is mutually convenient to Cork and Galway and again why not Cork?

Thomond park springs to mind.

Thomond would be laughably big for Cork-Galway. Cost-effectiveness comes into it again.

Transport from Galway-Dublin is a lot better than from Galway-Cork. Also Cork is a hole.

**harleyleeds** · 20/04/2011, 1:21 PM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Thomond would be laughably big for Cork-Galway. Cost-effectiveness comes into it again.

Transport from Galway-Dublin is a lot better than from Galway-Cork. Also Cork is a hole.

"Cork is a hole" your not a very nice person charlie.

Thomond too big but Aviva ok hmmmm.