QuoteThere's a lot of self-righteousness in this thread...
(runs)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN1WN0YMWZUOriginally Posted by marinobohs
The 'fans' that annoy me the most are the clowns that, never having been to Manchester, Liverpool, London etc, still insist on using 'we' to describe an EPL teamreally makes me want to bludgeon them to death with the nearest TV. Usually resist the urge to kill (no guarantee of future performance
as the banks say) but have to ask if their name is Glazer, Henry or Abramovich.
........its the little things that keep you sane(ish)
There's a lot of self-righteousness in this thread...
(runs)
The LOI isn't dying, it's plodding along like it always has.
We often see people going on about how the LOI is 'dying' or 'broken', but when people talk about fixing it, 'fix' means 'improve', and I think that the kind of improvement that they imagine is beyond what will happen in LOI.
Who's to blame? The clubs, sure, for being, for the most part, terribly mismanaged and usually shortsighted. The FAI, sure, for not giving a sh!t about their league.
Some people don't have any interest in the LOI or care about it - fine with me, no worries, watch what you like.
But I don't think for a second that we need to refrain from expressing our frustration with and/or distain for people who instantly dismiss the LOI as sh!te, dying, or broken. I think it's generous to suggest that a rational and logical argument will convince these people of the merits of LOI when they are happy to dismiss it without any rational reason whatsoever.
Finally, on the issue of coming across as 'superior' or 'condescending'. We see it a lot, although not so much on this site. "I would go to LOI, but the fans might be mean to me. They're always acting so superior."
Anybody, and I mean anybody, who uses this pathetic excuse can go f**k themselves.
Last edited by osarusan; 13/08/2014 at 3:09 PM.
Vast, vast majority of people looking to "fix" the league don't care about it.
I say it all the time but **** them, their loss. As long as I have games to go to and a team to cheer on, I'll be OK. It's supposed to be fun after all.
Fans of LOI clubs constantly moaning about being ignored/dismissed does no good. Whining rarely makes people think something is fun.
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
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New blog if anyone's interested - http://loihistory.wordpress.com/
LOI section on balls.ie - http://balls.ie/league-of-ireland/
Also, I wrote this in reply to one of those arseholey "I don't care about the league but I'll try and fix it anyway" articles in March
http://backpagefootball.com/new-leag...a-reply/71752/
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
---
New blog if anyone's interested - http://loihistory.wordpress.com/
LOI section on balls.ie - http://balls.ie/league-of-ireland/
Based on Jonathan Wilson's book on Eastern European football the LOI appears to be quite well run!
I'm not sure what people really want in the league. The champions of the last few years have won it the right way and in exciting contests. This year looks no different. For a league in a small country with no TV market and starved of any source of non-domestic money, what do people expect?
I hung around with a lot of football-minded friends in my 20s. Rather than attending LOI regularly most of us played every weekend, and usually twice a weekend. Add twice weekly training and there wasn't much time left for going to live games. The sheer numbers of people playing in all of the corporation parks at weekends, and the depth of coverage in the weekly junior footy pull outs in the evening papers suggested to me that Ireland actually managed to convert football interest into something more tangible than paying to watch the game at home. There are well supported community clubs all over the country, but few of these players and volunteers are part of the LOI fanbase. That's not wrong from a moral point of view, but it's a weakness from an organisational perspective, the much sought after joined-up pyramid etc.
Lots of other countries get political support for football infrastructure but Ireland is relatively unique in that football is competing with the sporting wing of the Irish state. Other small countries have other sports to compete with but the GAA is different because of its political support. I loved Jerry Kiernan's outburst recently on the state funding a new clubhouse for London GAA, giving more money than it ever gives Irish athletics. Rugby is fortunate because it has privileged access to the lucrative Heineken Cup (and successor) and has only a handful of countries to compete against. Without European rugby the Celtic nations would be in the same position as the LOI. The IRFU has exploited its position very well, and rugby has tapped into a peculiar part of the Irish psyche in that we love external success / validation, especially against England. The same part of that psyche is to look down our noses where we're not up to scratch.
I really liked Dodge's response to that article but one point I'm not sure about is that just because a disinterested outsider thinks the league should improve doesn't mean that the league couldn't improve, and more importantly, that it's not important for it to be better. All Irish football stakeholders win if the LOI is stronger, better connected to other levels of football, better backed and better supported in my opinion.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 13/08/2014 at 3:51 PM.
I also resent the idea that LOI fans are required to be ambassadors for the league and constantly have to justify it and convert people. If I want to be dismissive of other people who don't give it a chance, or sneer at them, it's my choice.
There is little converting to be done in Dundalk and i'm sure its the same in other towns like Sligo for example. A good majority are interested in how the club is getting on and I have no problem passing on the results but those that ask about the game on Friday nights have so many excuses for why they wont or cant get up to Oriel... The most common excuse currently seems to be I used to go but when things went bad I gave up and i'd feel stupid going back as i dont want to be one of those only sing when we're winning people (though these tend to have Leeds, Blackburn, Man U, Arsenal shirts oF 90's vintage). There is little sneering at Dundalk FC but I feel like sneering at those who claim to have served their time in Oriel (quite appropriate term for some) during the 80s hence leave the supporting to the younger folk now - didnt know 40 something was somewhat of a retirement age for football supporters in North Louth
40 somethings have family commitments that younger folk don't have though. So I'm told anyway
I think most "active" football fans are younger. I used to love being in the thick of things and joining in all the chanting. I'm much more passive in my old age now.
Spot on. And as for being dismissive, do people not find that fans of english clubs can be equally, if not more, dismissive of the LOI - !I wouldn't watch that ****e etc etc. Oh, and it is fun. Ask Dundalk fans this year, or Pats fans last year. In fact even when it's not so much fun, I still find you can't stop caring. It must be like a parent dealing with a child on drugs or something, you still can't help loving them, even though they break your heart
Out for a spell, got neglected, lay on the bench unselected.
The problem for a long time was that the 40-somethings were becoming a larger proportion of the fanbase, which isn't the way numbers are really supposed to work.40 somethings have family commitments that younger folk don't have though. So I'm told anyway
I think most "active" football fans are younger. I used to love being in the thick of things and joining in all the chanting. I'm much more passive in my old age now.
It's funny you know, I love telling EPL fans "I wouldn't watch that sh!te", and just look at their reactions. The mixture of confusion and anger that fills them is wonderful.
I've gone beyond getting annoyed at people. It's their choice what they wish to watch, but it'll not stop me attempting to bring a few friends along. A close friend of mine started watching Galway at the start of the season, never been a league of Ireland fan before, and he's now a fairly regular attendee in Terryland. No pressure put on him, and he's gone and enjoyed it himself.
You can't force someone to watch it. But you can encourage.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
Living in England for the most part with regular weekends back, when games are on TV like the recent Cork v Dundalk match the English lads that were watching the game had a genuine interest or curiosity in the standard. After the game it was 'when you heading over for a match we'll tip along too'. No cajoling or justifying a leagues existence. These guys would be Colchester United, Orient, & and Southend regulars but West Ham too (not the Orient lads lol). In a very common sense point of view they dont expect every game to be of a Sky Sports top ten moments. They acknowledge the limitations of the lower league teams but dont deride them in a comparison to an EPL team. They loved the passion and dedication that was on offer at Turners Cross, the football too - no amount of explaining the Oriel was no comparison to Turners Cross facilities wise they didnt care. United Park on Friday was a contrast ground wise but again there was no elitist attitude they enjoyed the game and thrills of the Derby. I suppose what im getting at is that Irish football fans are far more critical of our own and overly so in contrast to an outside untainted viewpoint that is not warped by BT or SKY razzmatazz. A similar contrast from being at Upton Park to WHC Stadium but the sense not to expect the same experience, not comparing like with like etc. As regulars in a pub that has Irish sports Soccer Republic gets a few airings over the week. Its all an easy sell compared to the complex driven 'Irish' fans. They did laugh though at a documentary on New York EPL supporters and an irish lad stating that he refused to go in to a bar cause it was full of Mancs or Scousers ... cant remember which
I agree with you in the most part - but the type im referring to are already sitting in a pub having sunk numerous pints, want a detailed match report, start misty eyed reminising about former eras and how much they gave of themselves. Suggest that the head up the following week ....?40 somethings have family commitments that younger folk don't have though. So I'm told anyway
I think most "active" football fans are younger. I used to love being in the thick of things and joining in all the chanting. I'm much more passive in my old age now.
Oh good jaysus.
I think the League of Ireland and Women's football are two of the positive things going on in Irish football. The LOI clubs have improved off the pitch after some very hard times, even though it's still a challenge to balance the books. The importance of the LOI developing players for the national team has been on an upward trend for the last decade. The number of ex-LOI players in the squad and in the first XI is increasing all the time. We can't rely on foreign clubs to develop our players for us anymore and the LOI has a key role to play, hopefully more people will realise this.
Looked it up and it is a film on Manchester United and the comment 'Why do you not like Manchester United fans? Irish chap in an Arsenal shirt replies 'Cause none of them are from Manchester!'......while walking down a New York street the Irony was not lost on the English lads!
7.40mins in but go back to 7min to get the full puke worthy chat!
http://watchmovies.to/movies/45079-m...-promised-land
I hope you didn't infer that from my post, Charlie. Everyone's free to do what they like.
What do you say to those who offer you that "excuse"?
I don't want to make a massive deal out of it in confrontational fashion as you may have used it fairly neutrally (or perhaps unwittingly) and this probably comes across as a bit pedantic on my part, but even the word "excuse" used in this context has loaded connotations and would sound daft - possibly even insulting - to someone with no present active interest in the league. An excuse is "a plea offered in extenuation of a fault or for release from an obligation or a promise". These inactive or latent supporters may have their reasons, but why would or should they ever feel like they have to excuse themselves, as if they're in the wrong and owe you an explanation?
The language proponents use in promotion of the league is very important; it needs to be positive and encouraging. The most effective way to win people over is by making them feel good about getting into something; not by making them feel guilty for being interested in something else. No-one likes to feel like their being coerced, goaded or emotionally blackmailed into or out of something. Do you feel a need to excuse yourself from other local events in Dundalk besides football that you don't bother attending because you have absolutely no interest in them at present? What would you make of people mocking your "excuses" for not partaking in the local church choir or joining the weekly cookery club? Asking someone with no interest in the League of Ireland what their "excuse" is for not attending games would sound as senseless and unreasonable to them as what asking you what your "excuse" was for not going on an archaeology dig in Monaghan next Sunday or for not eating Irish stew right now would sound like to you. You might have unconscious reasons - a simple lack of present interest, most likely, as is your right - but if someone started badgering you to explain yourself or expected you to excuse yourself, you'd rightly think they were on a wind-up, no?
What you say is probably true, but it's surely no reason to lower oneself to such standards.
"They're dismissive of us, so we're going to be dismissive of them!" Where does that get us?
Are you serious? Do you really think that LOI fans are confronting or challenging non LOI fans, 'badgering' them, looking for them to justify their non-attendance? That's a ludicrous notion, and not in any way a rational interpretation of the comments on this thread either.
Danny, who are you to lecture us on what you see as our condescension and our unhelpful attitudes, or instruct us as to what we should be doing? Why should I not simply assume that you are just another poster who doesn't know much about LOI, but has the arrogance to think they know how to diagnose the problems and to fix them?
Certainly, your argument that all the league needs is a bit of imagination in its promotion is a ridiculous oversimplification of the problems it faces, and very insulting to people, people I know personally, who have spent years, if not decades, working their arses off to develop their club in the face of a generally apathetic public.
Last edited by osarusan; 14/08/2014 at 3:54 AM. Reason: Notion, not argument
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