Europe 2011

**Charlie Darwin** · 29/11/2010, 11:50 AM

Why does finishing 5th get you an easier game than finishing 1st? Daft Australians.

**legendz** · 29/11/2010, 11:52 AM

For arguments sake if a 16 team Premier is brought in, the likes of UCD and Dundalk would've been in mid-table without a whole lot to play for. The play-offs would at least give them something to play for.
The play-offs worked well in division one. Until the last 2-3 weeks, the top 6 were still eyeing promotion, be it winning the division or getting to the play-offs.

**Dodge** · 29/11/2010, 11:53 AM

BTW I can guarantee you that people advocating European play offs wuod be the first to moan when our 7th place league finisher gets thiumped in Europe

**pineapple stu** · 29/11/2010, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Why does finishing 5th get you an easier game than finishing 1st? Daft Australians.

Cos if you win, you skip a round and if you lose, you're not knocked out.

**legendz** · 29/11/2010, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

BTW I can guarantee you that people advocating European play offs wuod be the first to moan when our 7th place league finisher gets thiumped in Europe

I accept the arguments of those against play-offs but I still don't agree. When the Europa League was formed and the Intertoto finished, the LoI did gain an extra EL place. If the rules are laid about before the beginning of a season I can't see how there can be too many complaints. Finish in the top two, European football is guaranteed. Finish short of the top two, there's a second chance through an end of season play-off competition. Play-offs have been brought in for a number of reason. They do avoid more dead rubbers and they give more teams something to aim for. The highest ranked side in the play-offs are given the advantage of the home tie for the second-leg etc. The two play-off ideas mooted would take 4 matchdays. The current relegation/promotion play-off take 3 matchdays. A Friday night finish to the season at a league ground, with European football to play for, it's not a bad finish to the season.
This year for example:
Imagine if the great FAI Cup final was played in mid-October. If this was followed by the 3 or 4 remaining rounds of the league with Shamrock Rovers and Bohemians battling for the title and then a Europa League play-off series. It'd have been some finish to the season, with a lot of high profile games.

**marinobohs** · 29/11/2010, 1:09 PM

Originally Posted by legendz

I accept the arguments of those against play-offs but I still don't agree. When the Europa League was formed and the Intertoto finished, the LoI did gain an extra EL place. If the rules are laid about before the beginning of a season I can't see how there can be too many complaints. Finish in the top two, European football is guaranteed. Finish short of the top two, there's a second chance through an end of season play-off competition. Play-offs have been brought in for a number of reason. They do avoid more dead rubbers and they give more teams something to aim for. The highest ranked side in the play-offs are given the advantage of the home tie for the second-leg etc. The two play-off ideas mooted would take 4 matchdays. The current relegation/promotion play-off take 3 matchdays. A Friday night finish to the season at a league ground, with European football to play for, it's not a bad finish to the season.
This year for example:
Imagine if the great FAI Cup final was played in mid-October. If this was followed by the 3 or 4 remaining rounds of the league with Shamrock Rovers and Bohemians battling for the title and then a Europa League play-off series. It'd have been some finish to the season, with a lot of high profile games.

Based on the presumption that it would lead to higher profile games I could see some sense in it but would not take that for granted. Various experiments tried in the past (top six / bottom six, 4-3-2-1- points etc) did not lead to an increase in publicity and it could be arguable led to a decrease in credibility for the League.

**Dodge** · 29/11/2010, 1:39 PM

Originally Posted by legendz

Imagine if the great FAI Cup final was played in mid-October. If this was followed by the 3 or 4 remaining rounds of the league

That happened the first couple of years of summer football. Pats averaged about 1,800 before the cup final. lost it, and averaged about 700 after it.

Awful idea.

**osarusan** · 29/11/2010, 2:08 PM

Originally Posted by legendz

If the rules are laid about before the beginning of a season I can't see how there can be too many complaints.

Nobody is complaining at being ambushed by playoffs at the end of the season. People complain because they (and I) see it as unfair/pointless to have playoffs, or at least the kind of playoffs you're talking about.

The purpose of a league is to determine over 36 games which teams are stronger than other teams. At the end of the season, the league table doesn't lie. Why do you then want to have playoffs in which a team that has shown itself to be superior to another team over the course of the league has to play that team again in a once off/two leg playoff?

For excitement and to reduce dead rubbers? They're part of football, unexciting though they may be. And how exciting is it going to be in the last few weeks of the regular season when teams in say 4th or 5th are assured of a playoff spot with 2 or 3 games to go?

**pineapple stu** · 29/11/2010, 2:29 PM

Also, I quite like dead rubbers at times. They mean we're safe (or already down). We've had bugger all of them the past decade.

**Charlie Darwin** · 29/11/2010, 3:06 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Cos if you win, you skip a round and if you lose, you're not knocked out.

Ah, OK. Still seems more like an excuse to have more games than more competition.

**legendz** · 29/11/2010, 4:21 PM

The play-offs work well in Division One. All the top 6 were battling for something during the last few weeks. As I say, I accept the arguments of all against the idea but I still don't agree.
The one play-off I don't agree with however was Galway playing Bray this year. It doesn't quite work for relegation. Should be 9th Prem vs 2nd Div. 1 or include 3rd and 4th as well.

**legendz** · 17/12/2010, 12:46 PM

Clubs from countries with a lower ranking than Ireland made the Europa League group stage this year, Debrecen from Hungary (35th) and Sheriff Tiraspol from Moldova (37th). The 2010/11 access list had Ireland 30th.
With a bit of luck, if the two Rovers keep going as they are, hopefully one, if not two, of them can make the breakthrough next season.

**poster** · 17/12/2010, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by legendz

if the two Rovers keep going as they are, hopefully one, if not two, of them can make the breakthrough next season.

Define 'breakthrough' legendz.

**legendz** · 17/12/2010, 1:04 PM

Originally Posted by poster

Define 'breakthrough' legendz.

Yeah, no bother. I'd define it as a LoI club making the group stages of the EL or CL for the first time.

**Kingdom** · 17/12/2010, 5:26 PM

Originally Posted by legendz

Clubs from countries with a lower ranking than Ireland made the Europa League group stage this year, Debrecen from Hungary (35th) and Sheriff Tiraspol from Moldova (37th). The 2010/11 access list had Ireland 30th.
With a bit of luck, if the two Rovers keep going as they are, hopefully one, if not two, of them can make the breakthrough next season.

Both are bankrolled to a heavy extent though I think eh?

**poster** · 17/12/2010, 6:14 PM

Originally Posted by legendz

Yeah, no bother. I'd define it as a LoI club making the group stages of the EL or CL for the first time.

Dunno about Shams, but we won't be strong enough to challenge for a group stage place. Unless we get a very very few lucky draws.

**legendz** · 17/12/2010, 6:50 PM

Fair point by Kingdom.
Are TNS better than either of the Rovers? When TNS got by Boh's, after a defeat to Anderlecht they still got to the Europa League play-offs. It could be green tinted glasses on my behalf but I think either of the Rovers would've given CSKA Sofia a better game. Qualification for these stages does seem a long way off for the league but I wouldn't write it off entirely, with a bit of luck.