Conor Sammon F Alloa Athletic b.1986

**DeLorean** · 03/04/2013, 10:20 PM

I just think hitting them that high is playing with fire, not much room for error. Low and hard towards the corner are the safer bet like 2:35.

The better penalty takers tend to keep them fairly low more often than not.

**Charlie Darwin** · 03/04/2013, 10:27 PM

The English ones do. More technical players tend to place them high and to the corner, where the goalkeeper is least likely to reach it.

**pineapple stu** · 03/04/2013, 10:28 PM

Yep. Hit it high, and the keeper will not save it (that's almost a statistical fact), so the only issue is getting it on target.

Hit it low, and you've a better chance of hitting the target, and a better chance of the keeper reaching it.

**DeLorean** · 03/04/2013, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

The English ones do. More technical players tend to place them high and to the corner, where the goalkeeper is least likely to reach it.

Leighton Baines and Alan Shearer are two pretty successful penalty takers who often put them fairly high. Can't really think of many others. Ruud Van Nistelrooy had perfected the kind of penalty I think is safest, very low and very hard into the corner. He started missing when he stopped doing this, famously against Arsenal's 'invincibles' when he hit the crossbar.

**Charlie Darwin** · 03/04/2013, 10:55 PM

Have a watch of this, Uruguay's masterclass in penalty-taking from the 2011 Copa America. Four of their penalties are effectively unsavable, whereas Muslera saved one and got a hand to another Argentinian penalty, both of which were hit low into the corner. There's a reason why England never lose every penalty shoot out they're involved in.

**DeLorean** · 03/04/2013, 11:12 PM

In fairness the one that was saved was neither low nor into the corner. Players put them at a nice height for keepers far too often. Some of those Uruguay ones weren't really that high either, just very well struck with power an accuracy. Anyway, keep hitting them high and this will eventually happen

....

**Charlie Darwin** · 03/04/2013, 11:27 PM

You're being a little bit sophistic here. I could point to dozens of penalties the goalkeeper has easily saved and say "keep hitting them low in the corner and this will happen." Tevez's penalty WAS hit low and to the corner, he just misdirected it, like Suarez did there. I'd be willing to bet my mother on the certainty that there are a lot more penalties saved than hit wide or over, which would suggest that hitting it towards the top corners is the relatively risk-averse option. Of course, you need a bit of bottle and the technical ability to pull it off, which is why not many players are willing to attempt it on a regular basis.

**Fixer82** · 04/04/2013, 12:05 AM

Steve Finnan V Spain - World Cup 2002. Now that's how you take a peno!

**Junior** · 04/04/2013, 8:58 AM

Ah feck it, for old times sake.......(Finnan SPOT kick from 5:00 onwards)

**DeLorean** · 04/04/2013, 9:38 AM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

You're being a little bit sophistic here.

Ah come on now, I wasn't taking the discussion that seriously. I just happened to remember Suarez blowing one miles over the bar and he was one of the penalty takers in your clip. It's wasn't meant as conclusive proof or anything. Surely your presentation of the penalty shoot-out is a little bit sophistic too?

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I could point to dozens of penalties the goalkeeper has easily saved and say "keep hitting them low in the corner and this will happen." Tevez's penalty WAS hit low and to the corner, he just misdirected it, like Suarez did there.

Yeah, that's all true I would think. Tevez type of penalty wasn't really the type of penalty I was referring to though, in my original comment on the subject. He went for brute force really which will generally compromise the accuracy. I'd prefer to take a little off the velocity and concentrate more on the accuracy. If you put the ball towards that side netting that PineappleStu was talking about, keepers will rarely get over to save it, whether it's high or low.

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I'd be willing to bet my mother on the certainty that there are a lot more penalties saved than hit wide or over, which would suggest that hitting it towards the top corners is the relatively risk-averse option.

There are definitely more saved than hit wide or over, that's fairly obvious seeing as from 12 yards players are generally going to hit the target. I don't think that tells us much really, as we don't know the stats on the percentage of high penalties that miss the target and we don't know the percentage of low penalties that are saved. Also, when a player is going for the 'high' option there is also the possibility he'll underhit it, and leave it at a nice height for the keeper.

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Of course, you need a bit of bottle and the technical ability to pull it off, which is why not many players are willing to attempt it on a regular basis.

You need bottle because it's a more risky penalty, which was my point in the first place. Fair enough though, I know you think it's only riskier in relation to hitting the target and not in terms of your percentage chance of actually scoring.

**pineapple stu** · 04/04/2013, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by DeLorean

we don't know the stats on how the percentage of high penalties that miss the target and we don't know the percentage of low penalties that are saved.

Some stats here from every World Cup/Euro Championship penalty shoot-out from 1998 to 2012 (probably not a big sample in fairness). Not one shot to the top third of the goal was saved, and there was a higher miss rate amongst players aiming for the bottom right than anywhere else bar centre top. One-third of all penalties to the bottom left were saved.

Conclusion? Aim for the top corner.

**geysir** · 04/04/2013, 10:21 AM

Quite a big difference when talking about Sammon's penalty technique/ability/confidence etc. in a penalty shoot out in a league cup game in Kildare and comparing it to a championship game at a packed ground.

**ifk101** · 04/04/2013, 10:33 AM

Is that based on personal experience?

**Fixer82** · 04/04/2013, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Junior

Ah feck it, for old times sake.......(Finnan SPOT kick from 5:00 onwards)

God, that commentator is so annoying. It's so obvious he's already seen the game before commentating on it

**geysir** · 04/04/2013, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by ifk101

Is that based on personal experience?

Of course.
All our opinions here on this matter are based on objective analysis of exact personal experience of the event we are discussing.

**DeLorean** · 04/04/2013, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Some stats here from every World Cup/Euro Championship penalty shoot-out from 1998 to 2012 (probably not a big sample in fairness). Not one shot to the top third of the goal was saved, and there was a higher miss rate amongst players aiming for the bottom right than anywhere else bar centre top. One-third of all penalties to the bottom left were saved.

Conclusion? Aim for the top corner.

Well I would agree that if you hit a penalty high and on target, it won't really be saved. The debate overall was more to do with whether it was worth the risk of missing the target completely by hitting it high. This would suggest that it's not, don't you think?...

"Well over half of those penalties missed were aimed at the top third of the goal. Almost a quarter of those missed were aimed bottom left, a function of this being the most popular target."

**ifk101** · 04/04/2013, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by geysir

Of course.
All our opinions here on this matter are based on objective analysis of exact personal experience of the event we are discussing.

Never liked the pitch in Newbridge myself, too close to the train which put me off many a penalty kick. Never had such problems in the Championship mind you.

**pineapple stu** · 04/04/2013, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by DeLorean

Well I would agree that if you hit a penalty high and on target, it won't really be saved. The debate overall was more to do with whether it was worth the risk of missing the target completely by hitting it high. This would suggest that it's not, don't you think?...
[B][I]

Well yes, but part of the point of being a good penalty taker technically is that you're more likely not to blaze it over.

**DeLorean** · 05/04/2013, 2:11 PM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

The English ones do. More technical players tend to place them high and to the corner, where the goalkeeper is least likely to reach it.

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

There's a reason why England nearly lose every penalty shoot out they're involved in.

A combination of curiosity and too much time on my hands made me look back over the previous England penalty shoot-outs. The only one I didn't watch was the one against Portugal in 2004, as I couldn't find it on YouTube.

I discovered that England aim high more often than the opposition, and have had a lot of success in doing so. Ashley Young hitting the bar against Italy and Chris Waddle's famous high and wide against West Germany in 1990 their only misses. Beardsley, Shearer (2), Merson, Owen, Gascoigne and Sheringham have all scored to the upper third of the net.

England's opponents have scored with all of their 'high' attempts except for Fernando Hierro in 1996, when he hit the bar.

All four of the German spot kicks in 1990 were aimed low (well KH Riedle's was debatable, probably the middle third). 4/6 of the German penalties in 1996 were aimed high. In all, they scored 10/10 !!

All-in-all your argument that 'hitting them high is best' is fairly well supported I think, but you may have been a bit harsh on England (even if they did lose most of the shoot-outs).

Ah look at him there....