Magners League of Football?

[Stuttgart88]

All fair points, though it's an unfortunate reality that formerly strong leagues in Europe are now mere feeder leagues for stronger leagues.

I watched Bray v Rovers live on the web on Friday, as I have a few of the live Friday matches recently, and although it was obviously all very "small time" it looked quality.

[osarusan]

Keep looking outward and pointing the finger, don't be proactive.

The irony of it is that all these people who recognise that the league would be stronger if it had more fans aren't willing to get off their holes and go to the matches. How's that for not being proactive?

Regarding Stuttgart's proposal, I'd echo some of ifk101's concerns, but also wonder about just how many groups would be needed for the Irish clubs (3 get europa places) to all avoid each other (the idea that they might play each other in a group stage is unthinkable). Also, even if each group had only 3 teams, you're looking at a minimum of 4 games for the Everton/Villa of the group against decidedly unglamourous opposition (maybe just Welsh and Irish clubs? A team like Hearts would be the most attractive draw). I think it would be hard to sell it to them.

But saying all that, it's a better proposal than what usually gets floated, involving some fantasy league with Dublin Rovers the Irish representative.

[Charlie Darwin]

A more realistic idea would be to extend the Setanta Cup concept to the other Celtic nations, but even so Celtic and Rangers would be unlikely to see the benefits of the extra matches and we are probably still too immature to host Rangers in this country or vice versa. Perhaps they could be drawn to send development sides, but that would dilute the quality.

[Eminence Grise]

I like that idea. Say five teams each from Ireland, NI, Wales and Scotland. Two from each country to enter at the first round 2-leg knock-out, winners progressing to a second round of 16 teams.

I'd hazard that Setanta might not be welcomed with open arms in Scotland, but business is business and provided they could satisfy all the leagues of their bona fides I wouldn't see that as a major stumbling block. Maybe a different major sponsor (or several smaller ones) with matches covered by Setanta would be a possible sop. Failing that, there are other broadcasters that might be tempted. The competition would have a total potential TV audience of around 14m, so prize money could be sufficiently attractive to attract clubs. If Celtic and Rangers decided to put in reserve teams, let them: if their players are good enough, they'll do well and if they aren't, a few losses to lesser lights might persuade them to take it more competitively.

Meantime, I'd hope that the last few years of playing NI clubs has gotten rid of some of our antipathy to certain things British.

[Dodge]

Keep looking outward and pointing the finger, don't be proactive.

Yep, Irish football's problems are clearly down to the people who do go to the games

And nothing at all with the people who don't go to the games.

[Adrock]

The headline may cause a few palpitations, but, prompted by the comments on the Ciaran Clark thread:

Just in relation to "imaginative thinking" with regard to league restructuring or whatever, and totally regardless of the personalities offering the opinions offered on the Clark thread: my feeling myself is that, as Charlie D said, the rugby model works only because the path was totally clear for them to do so. If BO'D and co. could earn 20 times what they earn by moving to the AVIVA Premiership they'd do so in a flash. The national governing bodies can offer central contracts (like in cricket too) because the money is in the international game more than the club game. Also the clubs are no threat to the IRB like they potentally are to UEFA. None of the ingredients for a successful Magners League among celtic football countries exists in my opinion, not least the lack of commercial appeal.

In my opinion, the answer could lie in UEFA's remit by way of a revamping of the Europa League. I have collated quotes from Platini promoting the idea of a Dutch / Belgian joint league, or a Balkan league (like they have in basketball). Therefore it'd seem that the opposition to cross-border leagues, such as an Atlantic League-style breakaway might be qualified rather than outright.

If the early rounds of the Europa League were constructed on a regional basis, pitching the Irish (LOI and IL), Welsh, Scottish and English clubs together in groups until a few qualifiers are determined and then when the wheat is sorted from the chaff the group stages proper begin, or maybe the 16 or 32 "regional" qualifiers get pitched into a knockout competition. You'd have to seed and do a bit of jiggery pokery to arrive at an elegant structure / format, but let's work on the principle first and the structural nuances afterwards. Teams would obviously qualify for the Europa League "regional rounds" via the normal route: domestic league performance.

Again, this is only an instinctive view, but I think if the likes of Everton were to play a LOI team in a friendly it’d get some interest but if they were to visit in a European competition it’d attract huge interest. My format would mean the LOI clubs would have a few local derby type matches that’d attract interest (and gate receipts), rather than just one potential Juve type game and the Isreali game that preceded it.

I think this format could also be used to pitch Dutch, French, Belgian and say (West) German teams together, Scandy teams together, Balkans, (East) Germany, Poland, Czechs etc., and ex-CIS states. Think of a group with Greece, Cyprus, Turkey & Israeli teams!

UEFA could divvy up the TV money in a redistributive manner, meaning proper income for clubs like the LOI clubs. Income combined with the current UEFA financial licensing rules means some degree of profitability, and some degree of profitability would then attract investment and a virtuous circle could begin.

It’s just an abstract idea, and logistically could prove unworkable but it’s the kind of thing I could see being of benefit for smaller leagues like ours and also for UEFA if they are to be seen as seriously supportive of the pyramid structure and general development of European football.

There’s big upside for LOI sized clubs, it’d make travel for supporters affordable and the smaller travel for the larger clubs would mean they’d moan less about having to play European football!

There was the Royal League for Scandanavia too, it was a kind of supplementary competition to Scandanavian leagues but didnt really take off. I think most countries are happy enough with their national leagues because they actually have decent local clubs people want go and watch. You can catch a game in a country like Serbia or Czech republic, Norway etc and chances are you will get entertainment , passionate fans and a decent level of technique (certainly in Serbia) You might not see household name internationals on show but there are players at least who have the potential to be so. Most countries have clubs with strong traditions who have made an impact at European level at one time or another.

Anyway people who want to watch club football generally go to watch their own nation's clubs, as it should be, rather than that of thier neighbours. You dont see Belgian football fans deserting the country en masse at weekend to watch the Bundesliga, Bulgarians saving up their Lev to go an watch fenerbahce etc (though isome individuals may do so). They dont because there is a viable alternative they have some pride in.

Its only really in Ireland this situation exists where people just dont bother with their own league virtually at all. I'm as guilty as any as its my British club that I tend to devote most attention and resources to. I could of course watch LOI every week instead but my doing so wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the quality of the league. You have to get tens of thousands amongst us to do the same rather than an individual and that necessitates a drastic change in the spectacle your watching.
If down the road there was a Derry club playing in a proper league, perhaps with local legend Shay Given in goal I'd sure get my season ticket , but a thousand years of minor reforms to the LOI arent going to create that kind of situation

[Dodge]

Maybe if all those who think theat them going won't make a difference actually got up off their holes and watched it, they'd solve the problem

The ONLY problem the LOI has is lack of funding. Until people go to games, that won't change.

People can use all the excuses they like, but thats the bottom line. Want better players? Better facilities? More marketing? Help us pay for it.

otherwise, the complaints are pointless. its like people giving out about the givernment and never voting

[osarusan]

its my British club that I tend to devote most attention and resources to.

Aren't they the lucky ones.

[Charlie Darwin]

Anyway people who want to watch club football generally go to watch their own nation's clubs, as it should be, rather than that of thier neighbours. You dont see Belgian football fans deserting the country en masse at weekend to watch the Bundesliga, Bulgarians saving up their Lev to go an watch fenerbahce etc (though isome individuals may do so). They dont because there is a viable alternative they have some pride in.

This is somewhat true. When I was in Austria last year, I switched on some Bundesliga coverage and it took me a few minutes to realise that it was the Austrian one, not the German (although I did also keep forgetting I was in Austria and thinking it was Germany). At the same time, when we went out, all the bars were showing Liverpool on Sky so it's not all that different.

Its only really in Ireland this situation exists where people just dont bother with their own league virtually at all. I'm as guilty as any as its my British club that I tend to devote most attention and resources to. I could of course watch LOI every week instead but my doing so wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the quality of the league. You have to get tens of thousands amongst us to do the same rather than an individual and that necessitates a drastic change in the spectacle your watching.

If down the road there was a Derry club playing in a proper league, perhaps with local legend Shay Given in goal I'd sure get my season ticket , but a thousand years of minor reforms to the LOI arent going to create that kind of situation

That's a complete cop-out. If you like football and can afford to go to matches, you will. It doesn't matter where you live. If Shay Given HAS to be playing in order for you to show up, you're not a football fan at all - you're a celeb-spotter.

And a couple of hundred euro in admission fees can make a big difference for amateur and semi-pro sides.

[geysir]

Nevertheless there were visible clouds of gloom after that televised game between the Bray Unknowns and Shamrock Rovers.

[Charlie Darwin]

I enjoyed it

[geysir]

The country now expects, from the other Rovers.
The last hope.

[peadar1987]

I think regionalising the early stages of European competition would be good, so long as the regions were chosen to ensure a fairly equal strength of each region. No point having France, Portugal and Spain in one group, and Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Belarus in another! It would increase interest and crowds, and reduce costs for the smaller teams, as well as hopefully helping to ensure a wider geographical spread of teams. It's not a silver bullet, but then what is?

And as for the other points raised in this thread, there are a thousand reasons the league needs drastic change, but to force the barstool X Factor glamour fans into moving on to the next stock excuse for staying in the pub definitely isn't one of them.

[geysir]

If you think that in order for the league to be more successful, it means converting a punter from the barstool to becoming a regular attendee at LOI games, then the League is well and truly banjaxed.

Just a few hundred more supporters attending each week would make a big difference to each club. Though I don't have any ideas on how that is possible, but forget about those who occupy the barstools.

[peadar1987]

If you think that in order for the league to be more successful, it means converting a punter from the barstool to becoming a regular attendee at LOI games, then the League is well and truly banjaxed.

Just a few hundred more supporters attending each week would make a big difference to each club. Though I don't have any ideas on how that is possible, but forget about those who occupy the barstools.

Was that addressed to me?

I think much of the current barstool generation is a lost cause so far as the League of Ireland is concerned. They're into glitz, glamour and footballers with haircuts that cost more than Dalymount Park. The money would be better spent promoting the league in schools and junior football clubs, so the next generation of potential supporters don't go the same way as this one.

[Adrock]

This is somewhat true. When I was in Austria last year, I switched on some Bundesliga coverage and it took me a few minutes to realise that it was the Austrian one, not the German (although I did also keep forgetting I was in Austria and thinking it was Germany). At the same time, when we went out, all the bars were showing Liverpool on Sky so it's not all that different.


That's a complete cop-out. If you like football and can afford to go to matches, you will. It doesn't matter where you live. If Shay Given HAS to be playing in order for you to show up, you're not a football fan at all - you're a celeb-spotter.

And a couple of hundred euro in admission fees can make a big difference for amateur and semi-pro sides.

The point is I'd pay to go and watch a match thats going to be of a standard worth watching (Shay Given would be a bonus) I'm not going to go and freeze my nads off at Ballybofey every other week watching fairly dismal football in the hope that 80 thousand other people like me around the country are going to spontaneously do the same thing, in the faint hope that one day some time in the future the football will evolve to a standard to make it worth the trouble of going to see.

We need a league with large scale investment from business, television and governing bodies where possible put in place to create a level of football that people want to watch. The security for this investment would of course be us football fans who would pay to watch a decent spectacle were it to become available locally. Every other Euro country their league evolved naturally to a competitive level in accordance with the nation's size/economy etc. For whatever historical reason ours never has so we need a major reboot to ween people off teams across the sea.

'If you build it they will come' ............and if they dont, so what? we dont deserve a decent league then do we and we are either not a proper footballing nation as I like to think we are or else still pitifully culturally dependent on our one time colonial masters. Might as well scrap the national team too if they're all going to have to keep on emigrating to England as soon as they hit puberty to pursue their fortune ( if they're not actually english in the first place) close down the FAI and send them back to the circus.

[pineapple stu]

Dismissing the LoI as "fairly dismal" if your first error. Some games are crap, of course; many are very enjoyable. Some Premiership games are crap too.

Every other Euro country their league evolved naturally to a competitive level in accordance with the nation's size/economy etc.

Nonsense. The Finnish league in the 60s and 70s was worse than ours; now it gets better attendances than ours and enjoys copious local TV coverage. Ditto the Norwegian league. Did they just sit and wait for something to happen, and strike lucky? Of course not. (I don't know what they did, but that's not really the scope of this post).

But ultimately, all this macro stuff - merge leagues, change the season, change the number of teams, etc - masks the real problem. The real problem is at a micro level. That means the real problem is you. And every person individually. The league isn't going to improve all of itself. It's up to every individual person to try and get involved to improve their club. Unfortunately, in this country, it seems that that's too much effort, and we prefer a bit of an aul whine which ends up with the conclusion that everything is someone else's fault.

[geysir]

Was that addressed to me?

Not at all, well not in particular.
You have made interesting points.

[bennocelt]

The point is I'd pay to go and watch a match thats going to be of a standard worth watching (Shay Given would be a bonus) I'm not going to go and freeze my nads off at Ballybofey every other week watching fairly dismal football in the hope that 80 thousand other people like me around the country are going to spontaneously do the same thing, in the faint hope that one day some time in the future the football will evolve to a standard to make it worth the trouble of going to see.

:

First mistake of the barstooler. This strange idea that because its the LOI it is somewhat rubbish. The standard of the LOI is good and improving.
May i suggest you take a break from the sofa and go and see Sligo play in the cup final - if its not too much bother for you

[SwanVsDalton]

If down the road there was a Derry club playing in a proper league, perhaps with local legend Shay Given in goal I'd sure get my season ticket , but a thousand years of minor reforms to the LOI arent going to create that kind of situation

If you couldn't be bothered coming out in recent years to see David Kelly, Paddy McCourt, Niall McGinn and Liam Coyle, not to mention the visiting likes of Keith Fahey, Seamus Coleman and Kevin Doyle then why would you come see Shay Given?