Will Obama lose in 2012?

[bennocelt]

I'm sure we both agree that the loss of innocent lives in Iraq was horrible, as it is in any war, but with the American
president required to respond (and that 'requirement' vow is one he takes upon being sworn in) and with him being told after 911 that Iraq had all the ingredients to make WMD's, many of which were found in the country, then the decision to go into Iraq was a well informed one.

I'll be the first to say that the US forces stayed too long in the country, but there are those who'll argue that the US mission evolved into one of helping the country to democracy (they've had how many elections now?). There is also an argument that the US was afraid to get out too quick like happened in Kuwait.

I'm sure you'll have your own thoughts on what I have posted above, but I can tell you this for a fact. I talked over
a number of years with ex-pats from Ireland, England and Scotland, who were living in the US. For what it's worth they were, and still are I would suggest, completely disgusted by the sort of anti-American feelings (from those back home) that are in evidence on this thread.

America style democracy to iraq involves American trained and funded death squads roaming the streets, corruption, oil leaving the country daily, Iraq government been charged for the reconstruction of their own country, saddams notorious prisons opening up again, ethnic and religious strife, etc etc. God bless America!!!!!!

The irish/scots/english you met in the USA sound like idiots, but then you know them dont you!!!

[strangeirish]

Sorry, I can't share you're opinion about the TMLC. I would be interested to know what your feelings are on the liberals changing the names in California (away from anything depicting religion)? You are ok with that? TMLC has fought to stop that and things like that over the last several years.

I've never heard anything about this, nor can I find any references. But to answer your question, no, I wouldn't be ok with it, if it's even true.

But then again we Irish (and this is not directed at you in particular) are experts on every war we never fought in, just sitting there on the fence pontificating all day long on everything and anything which is a million miles away - such 'activism' would have really helped those innocent people in Bosnia, wouldn't it?

I didn't know we had to be experts on war in order to have an opinion.

I lived in America for several years and had the benefit of seeing the Democratic (Party) driven media report (or often not report) biasedly on TV to the masses. And when it comes to news involving America - Ireland, England and
most of Europe just picks up the biased news (because its from the same news corporations) and forms their opinions from it hook, line and sinker.

There is another media angle in the land of the dollar and free speech, and that is Talk Radio. They give far more balanced reporting to the news (and the facts) and are able to back them up.

The media was certainly culpable in the selling of the Iraq war, none more so than Fox 'So-called' News. At least the other outlets have recanted much of what they reported i.e WMD. Now, you cannot be serious about Talk Radio in the States. The only impartial organisation is the publicly funded NPR. The rest of the airwaves are dominated by right-wing hacks Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glen Beck etc. I hope this is not your idea of balanced. These guys are entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts and this is where their audience falls for the hook, line and sinker.

I'm sure we both agree that the loss of innocent lives in Iraq was horrible, as it is in any war, but with the American
president required to respond (and that 'requirement' vow is one he takes upon being sworn in) and with him being told after 911 that Iraq had all the ingredients to make WMD's, many of which were found in the country, then the decision to go into Iraq was a well informed one.

The intelligence he used was flawed and he knew it. There were no WMD's found in Iraq other than unusable remnants left over from the Gulf war.

I'm sure you'll have your own thoughts on what I have posted above, but I can tell you this for a fact. I talked over
a number of years with ex-pats from Ireland, England and Scotland, who were living in the US. For what it's worth they were, and still are I would suggest, completely disgusted by the sort of anti-American feelings (from those back home) that are in evidence on this thread.

I've been living in the US for almost 25 years and I can't disagree with people having a dim view of the US, considering it's most recent history. Obama gave the world a glimmer of what the US could be when he was first elected. Although he has been in office almost two years, he has his work cut out to repair the damage that was laid upon this country by Bush and his war for profit mongering neo-cons.

[mark12345]

The irish/scots/english you met in the USA sound like idiots, but then you know them dont you!!!

I do know them, and proud that I do. But maybe we're all idiots and you are the only one who knows what he's talking about.

If you lived in the US for any length of time you'd see things vastly differently.

I know a Kurd who's very thankful to the Americans for saving his family. I'd say there are plenty of Bosnians who thinkg the same way. And hopefully if Iran and Israel go to war, which just may happen the way things are going, you won't be looking to America for protection.

[ArdeeBhoy]

I lived in America for several years and had the benefit of seeing the Democratic (Party) driven media report (or often not report) biasedly on TV to the masses. And when it comes to news involving America - Ireland, England and most of Europe just picks up the biased news (because its from the same news corporations) and forms their opinions from it hook, line and sinker.

There is another media angle in the land of the dollar and free speech, and that is Talk Radio. They give far more balanced reporting to the news (and the facts) and are able to back them up.

So you listen to Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and it obviously makes you such a well-balanced contributor!

If you are going to blame America for the Iraq war then you have to confess that you forgot to also apportion a decent share of the blame to Britain, France, Germany and Russia, all of whom pooled their intelligence information with the White House beforehand. And what of Spain - they had an occupying force in Iraq did they not? The Iraq war was very much an international effort.

It was 90% driven by Karl Rove & Bush's cohorts and their pals in the 'military-industrial complex' who had a few billions of their own WMD to flog. The rest of the 'international community' were just monkeys on a string. Led by chief d*ck, Bl*ir.

the American president required to respond (and that 'requirement' vow is one he takes upon being sworn in) and with him being told after 911 that Iraq had all the ingredients to make WMD's, many of which were found in the country, then the decision to go into Iraq was a well informed one.

Except they, er, didn't. Even Wubya admits that FFS.

I'll be the first to say that the US forces stayed too long in the country, but there are those who'll argue that the US mission evolved into one of helping the country to democracy (they've had how many elections now?).

You mean like in Florida 2000 and Ohio 2004??

what would Ireland do if we had the wherewithal to respond to an attack on our country?
If we had even half the military power of either the USA or Iraq our response would have involved loss of life to some innoncents in some country, would it not?

If it happened, it would be down to some random nutter rather than some concerted military campaign, though maybe we should have not let those US military re-fuel at Shannon or stood up to the Brits more on behalf of their illegal colonial theme park.....

I talked over a number of years with ex-pats from Ireland, England and Scotland, who were living in the US. For what it's worth they were, and still are I would suggest, completely disgusted by the sort of anti-American feelings (from those back home) that are in evidence on this thread.

Clearly they were indoctrinated or contaminated by the same media you decry in yer opening sentence.

If the US carries on bombing or shooting up the feck out of certain places then people will fight back. And Good Luck to them.

[bennocelt]

I do know them, and proud that I do. But maybe we're all idiots and you are the only one who knows what he's talking about.

If you lived in the US for any length of time you'd see things vastly differently.

I know a Kurd who's very thankful to the Americans for saving his family. I'd say there are plenty of Bosnians who thinkg the same way. And hopefully if Iran and Israel go to war, which just may happen the way things are going, you won't be looking to America for protection.

What are you on, seriously
If anything you are the kind of person that gives America a bad name. Most people respect what America did in WW2 etc and its constitution and bill of rights are a shining light. BUT that doesnt mean America has cart blanche to kill and maim innocents all over the world from central america, vietnam to today in Iraq. People are dissapointed at what america has become. And if you reallly loved America you would see this, rather than following fox news like a sheep without questioning.
As for protection from an imminent attack from Iran, well somehow I dont think the lakes of Westmeath are much of a threat to the Mullahs in Iran

[OneRedArmy]

If you lived in the US for any length of time you'd see things vastly differently.

I did, and I don't.

[shantykelly]

you're disqualified for being educated kev.

[peadar1987]

I do know them, and proud that I do. But maybe we're all idiots and you are the only one who knows what he's talking about.

If you lived in the US for any length of time you'd see things vastly differently.

I know a Kurd who's very thankful to the Americans for saving his family. I'd say there are plenty of Bosnians who thinkg the same way. And hopefully if Iran and Israel go to war, which just may happen the way things are going, you won't be looking to America for protection.

Just because America's actions have saved some people doesn't make them 100% good. If I break into someone's house and murder them and their family for money, it's not excused by the fact that one of them might have once killed someone.

[Noelys Guitar]

And now back to the question will Obama win in 2012. He has an even money chance. Economy turns enough ie unemployment drops from 10.5% to around 8% then that will help. Republicians roll back Obama's health care reforms (the would be hugely unpopular with the unemployed, low wage workers without insurance, seniors and Hispanics). Obama could also garner the huge Hispanic vote by offering a Reagan like amnesty to illegals. America is quickly moving away from Europe and its cultural pull. Central and south America, Asia and the Indian sub continent peoples are going to dominate the US in the very near future. The tea party is in many ways the dying kick of those of white European stock. Irish-americans have little or no pull here anymore (same applies to Brit Anglo Americans). That show is gone forever.

[dahamsta]

You can refer back to this post in 2 years if you like: Unless he does something utterly retarded in the interim, or someone finds a massive skellington in his closet, he'll win in 2012. I absolutely guarantee it. All this talk of the current election is just utter nonsense, it'll have zero bearing in 2 years time; not least because the American public as a whole has a memory span slightly shorter than a goldfish.

[ArdeeBhoy]

The tea party is in many ways the dying kick of those of white European stock.

Hmm, a bit insulting to the majority of Caucasian Americans who would probably never vote for them.

That said, my only slight dissent is that Obama's constituency has become disengaged and unless he can get to refocus, Obama will still struggle. Especially up against the evil axis of Fox News and the nutty strands of the US conservative (and paranoid) media, especially when set against his relative mediocrity.

[Noelys Guitar]

Hmm, a bit insulting to the majority of Caucasian Americans who would probably never vote for them.

That said, my only slight dissent is that Obama's constituency has become disengaged and unless he can get to refocus, Obama will still struggle. Especially up against the evil axis of Fox News and the nutty strands of the US conservative (and paranoid) media, especially when set against his relative mediocrity.

I should re-phrase that. I meant right leaning descendents of European's who are angry at their perceived lack of power in America. The Democrats need the Tea party to keep rolling to help Obama mobilise the Dem base. The Clintons who are still hugely popular with independent voters will play a big part in 2012.

[ArdeeBhoy]

No offence taken. Sorry, that was implied....

Just very uncertain independents will back Obama, based on last week.

[Noelys Guitar]

No offence taken. Sorry, that was implied....

Just very uncertain independents will back Obama, based on last week.

I saw the error of my ways Ardeebhoy. My other points about Europeans and European culture are bearing out this week. Proven American surveilleance of Norway and Sweden. It simply would never have happened 20 years ago. It almost beggars belief (for those not living here). I'm not surprised. And I very much doubt they are the only two European Countries under surveilleance.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Anywhere, anyone has a pulse will be under observation, especially like Norway if they have oil....

[mark12345]

"What the hell are you talking about? If some immigrants crashed a couple of planes into Dublin, killing thousands, would we pull their ashes out of the fiery wreckage to give them a good kicking before invading Andorra to seize key skiing slopes? .....
I really only have one question for you: are you a troll, or do you really believe this stuff?"


I don't know, I guess I must be a troll who hasn't a clue about what's going on? But speaking of people crashing planes and killing thousands surely you'll be able to educate me on why those people who hijack planes and put bombs in ink cartridges, timed to detonate over the Eastern United States, as was in the news today, do so. Please educate this poor troll.

[peadar1987]

"What the hell are you talking about? If some immigrants crashed a couple of planes into Dublin, killing thousands, would we pull their ashes out of the fiery wreckage to give them a good kicking before invading Andorra to seize key skiing slopes? .....
I really only have one question for you: are you a troll, or do you really believe this stuff?"


I don't know, I guess I must be a troll who hasn't a clue about what's going on? But speaking of people crashing planes and killing thousands surely you'll be able to educate me on why those people who hijack planes and put bombs in ink cartridges, timed to detonate over the Eastern United States, as was in the news today, do so. Please educate this poor troll.

In a short sentence: Reactionary response to US interventionism. It doesn't justify it, but it explains it

[ArdeeBhoy]

"What the hell are you talking about? If some immigrants crashed a couple of planes into Dublin, killing thousands, would we pull their ashes out of the fiery wreckage to give them a good kicking before invading Andorra to seize key skiing slopes? .....
I really only have one question for you: are you a troll, or do you really believe this stuff?"


I don't know, I guess I must be a troll who hasn't a clue about what's going on? But speaking of people crashing planes and killing thousands surely you'll be able to educate me on why those people who hijack planes and put bombs in ink cartridges, timed to detonate over the Eastern United States, as was in the news today, do so. Please educate this poor troll.

You need to come up with a better and realistic analogy. And understand the causal factors that drive the extremists in response to the U's overt imperialism.

[Crosby87]

Wow there is some serious anti Americanism on here that is very poorly thought out. Hope my friends on Wall Street didn't read about Ireland today it might lead them to actually hate people. Or just to be hateful, in general. Isn't that how not knowing hte facts works?
As for the topic I think Barry Hussein will win in 2012 but Mark Rubio is possibly a very very interesting challenger though he was just elected to Governor last week.
I wouldn't be surprised to see them shelve Joe Biden in favor of someone else (A white woman like Olympia Snow who is technically a Republican) either in 12 months.
And that's my 2 cents.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Or you could just look to see what some Irish-based posters in the US have said ?

An anti-Americanism based on their foreign 'policy', should be resisted wherever possible given their continual and usually unnecessary control-freakery. Who cares what Wall Street thinks anyway.

And Rubio is just another Tea Party apologist and cretin to boot. If he's the answer, may a higher power help us all....