Republic of Ireland V Norway - Wednesday, 17th November 2010 - Friendly

[Stuttgart88]

I thought Ward looked ropey on MOTD. One very careless gift of possession to MU neraly resulted in a goal.

[Stuttgart88]

I know we cant allow every newcomer a 20 or 30 caps settling in period to become adjusted to International standard football. However.....Both Duff and McGeady have needed that amout of time to even start to show some level of consistency at this level.

Whats Green got at this stage, 6 or 7 caps? (perhaps 2 or 3 competitive). I think he has done ok, a few decent games and a few poor ones but Id be inclined to give him a little longer unless of course he simply cannot retain his place because we have other untested players who are simply going to walk in to the side and look comfortable against Macedonia home and away next year.

Someone said that Green is a paradox in the Irish team. He gives the ball away more than anyone but a lot of our best attacks in Slovakia came when he won the ball high up the pitch. When he went off we created less.

[geysir]

Yeah, I've watched him twice for Derby this season and been impressed both times, but the international step up does seem a bridge too far for him, for me he hasnt even showed glimpses of what would be required to adapt at the level, never mind impress. Did he play a more advanced role for Derby? just behind a tall frontman?

Yeah, he plays a much more advanced midfield role for Derby, I see he has the joint highest nr of assists in that league with 6 assists.

[Kingdom]

Judging from some of the comments by Trap, he is probably gonna start with the majority of the regulars and then make wholesale changes aalong the way. I have to say I think that is pretty pointless now, unless he sees the celtic cup, Uruguay and the american games as enough of an opportunity to vet the pretenders then, as he only has Macedonia at home before the final run-in from June.

Killer was decent in Slovakia, but the connection between himself and Aiden mcGeady doesn't seem to be there, they aren't on the same wavelength, and I would like to see other players being tried in the position, regardless of if it's a newbee like Cunningham or Ward, or an established player such as Stephen Kelly.

Norway have had a decent start to their group, but they aren't going to be showing anything that we haven't seen before, and while it will be a decent test, they're not going to rip any debutants a new one, so it really is a good time to experiment. Wilson is worth a go in the middle of the pitch and I would definitely like to see Kevin Foley start at right back.
I absolutely detest the notion of giving someone a cap, in order for them to play some football. That is what their clubs are for. In the case of Shay, Westwood deserves a chance. Otherwise when is he gonna get the experience he needs if Shay is injured etc.

I'd like to see this (based on the squad he's picked):

--------------------------Westwood-------------------------
Foley ----------- O'Shea----------------Dunne-------Cunningham/Kelly

--------------Fahey & Wilson or Whelan & Gibson-----------------

Coleman-------------------McGeady----------------------Treacy

----------------------------Doyle----------------------------

with the likes of Hunt, Cunningham, O'Dea, and Walters getting some time in the second half.
I fear what we'll see is:

-------------------Given--------------
O'Shea-------Dunne Ledger------- Killer
Fahey--------Green Gibson------- Duff
------------ Doyle Keane -----------

with cameo's for treacy, folan, coleman, walters and cunningham. Westwood will probably get a half.

[paul_oshea]

I thought Ward looked ropey on MOTD. One very careless gift of possession to MU neraly resulted in a goal.

he should have closed down park for the second clearly he was in the wrong. i think trap has it right on this one. and so will mccarthy soon...

[Kingdom]

I thought Ward looked ropey on MOTD. One very careless gift of possession to MU neraly resulted in a goal.

I have to be honest, I think the clamour for him is more to do with a dearth of options for us, rather than spectacular performances by Stephen. I don't think he's particularily good at full back, particularily defensively, and I'd prefer Kelly there myself, purely for his defensive abilities. I think Steo has been tainted by the early mistake against Georgia last year, unfairly in my opinion.

It would be wrong to not have a look at Stephen Ward though. After all he's a regular (for a long time too) in a team in the PL for a 2nd year. Actually it would be foolish not to look at him.
The place is up for grabs though. Killer is on shaky ground, we just need someone to be aggresive enough to take the spot.

Height in the team is a factor that I've harped on about for at least 5 years now, and it's a primary reason Killer is there, as we've seen recently we're a small enough team; even if we have good springers, it's one thing getting in front of a big defending player, a different thing in front of a big attacking defender. Killer is brilliant at this aspect of the game in particular, and it's the main reason behind his prolonged stay of execution

[Kingdom]

Someone said that Green is a paradox in the Irish team. He gives the ball away more than anyone but a lot of our best attacks in Slovakia came when he won the ball high up the pitch. When he went off we created less.

That is the truth of it. We retained the ball far better when he went off, but we weren't as forthright when either. What this confirms to me is that he's a worse off version of Keith Andrews. Also Glenn Whelans performances have deteriorated alongside him, to the extent that he is on dodgy ground too, although consistent injury and poor tactics may be as much of a cause for concern with Glenn as anything else.

If we're being honest, McCarthy should be establishing himself as the man of our midfield, and leaving Whelan, Andrews and Wilson to battle it out for the other spot, with Green a way behind, particularily if Conor Clifford can continue to progress over the course of the campaign at club level/

[paul_oshea]

If you're saying Kilbane shouldn't be in the squad then you're way off.

As a general point - as with previous squads, the calls are all marginal at best. Personally I'd like to see Stokes in, others Ward, maybe Maguire or whoever, but no one who's been omitted has made a cast-iron case for inclusion. The only one would be the unfortunately crocked McCarthy and it seems obvious by now he's very much in the manager's plans.

We do have the opportunity to see new faces - possible (actually, probable) debuts for Coleman, Wilson and Walters; opportunities for the likes of Foley, Kelly and Cunningham to make a claim; the chance for Fahey, Long and McGeady to kick on for encouraging performances in Zilina; the welcome return of Duff and Hunt.

Whether or not some of these guys are 'brand new' isn't the point. There's plenty to interest any Irish fan on how many of these guys perform. Just looking at the squad there's appears an abundance of options compared to even a month ago.

feature, as in game time.

[paul_oshea]

Does that mean you accept Charlie's post about Coleman making the squad or are you trying to make another point?

Natural attrition of injury will reduce the squad to at least 23.

well going on previous squads probably.

I agree with his point, but coleman was already selected in a possible 23 or 24, if you consider squad + cover. IM assuming though he will be kept in the actual 22 this time.

[geysir]

Actually, the statistics don't support the opinion that Green gives the ball away more than anyone.

In each of the games, he had his dodgy moments, adjusted and improved, I'd say in all probability he has a 75%/80% success rate with his passes.
His weakness is his first touch.
Without Green on the pitch against Slovakia we were weaker - more vulnerable through CM. It is astonishing that this has not been observed/admitted.
The first player to replace at CM is Whelan, he is showing all the symptoms of a player whose game has deteriorated because of a lack of first team football.

[Junior]

Do you have the stats geysir? Id tend to agree with your post, was just looking to see where it is substantiated though.

[Kingdom]

[QUOTE=geysir;1422038]

Actually, the statistics don't support the opinion that Green gives the ball away more than anyone.

To be fair, and I'm really not trying to start an argument, but you might as well put "FACT!" beside this point, because it's an opinion more than anything else really? Unless of course you present them, and I'll accept that 100%

In each of the games, he had his dodgy moments, adjusted and improved, I'd say in all probability he has a 75%/80% success rate with his passes.

I would debate that strongly, but without any evidence to back it up. That said I did rewatch the Russia game (3times) and Slovakia game, specifially to look at McGeady's performance, and in the case of the Russia game, broke down how many times he used the ball, how many times he lost it, and how well he actually played, but it cut no ice on this forum, despite being backed up by evidence.

His weakness is his first touch.

Again to be fair, that's probably the worst weakness for a central midfielder to have! At least Whelan's weakness is his lack of pace.

Without Green on the pitch against Slovakia we were weaker - more vulnerable through CM. It is astonishing that this has not been observed/admitted.

We weren't as combative I would describe as being more accurate, something both myself and Stuttgart acknowledged openly and positively. I think that had more to do with certain posters wanting certain players to be doing well i.e Gibson>Green.

The first player to replace at CM is Whelan, he is showing all the symptoms of a player whose game has deteriorated because of a lack of first team football.

I disagree, and would acknowledge that it might be biased for having a fondness for Whelan, but I'd have Green out of the squad completely, whereas I'd be happy for Whelan to be a squad member.

[CraftyToePoke]

His weakness is his first touch

Id go along with that, but its not to much a weakness as a total lack of one on several occasions, very frustrating to see our player at that level so exposed on that front. I was cringing each time I saw it coming his way against Russia after his first few times on it.

[paul_oshea]

Actually, the statistics don't support the opinion that Green gives the ball away more than anyone.

In each of the games, he had his dodgy moments, adjusted and improved, I'd say in all probability he has a 75%/80% success rate with his passes.
His weakness is his first touch.
Without Green on the pitch against Slovakia we were weaker - more vulnerable through CM. It is astonishing that this has not been observed/admitted.
The first player to replace at CM is Whelan, he is showing all the symptoms of a player whose game has deteriorated because of a lack of first team football.

I did think in slovakia, he was doing well and we lost the ball in the middle for longer periods of time when he went off.

I also thought he lost the ball quite a lot, but he won it originally to lose it again, which at least means we had the ball more often than normal, and for longer.

I did also say this at the time and agreed with you geysir, if that makes the "observed/admitted" any more positive.

[SwanVsDalton]

feature, as in game time.

Fair nuff, wasn't as clear from original post.

I disagree, and would acknowledge that it might be biased for having a fondness for Whelan, but I'd have Green out of the squad completely, whereas I'd be happy for Whelan to be a squad member.

Agree with this. It's not simply a question of form - Whelan has proven himself to be an asset at international level even if he isn't playing well. Green has yet to prove anything.

[Kingdom]

Agree with this. It's not simply a question of form - Whelan has proven himself to be an asset at international level even if he isn't playing well. Green has yet to prove anything.

That's my thinking of it exactly. Whelan has shown himself to be competent alongside a good midfielder, Stephen Reid, quite good alongside a decent midfielder, Keith Andrews. So it's not like he's been shocking for a long time. What he does isn't spectacular, he offers an outlet for the short ball for the full back, and an out ball for the wingers, when they're tight, and regularily does that well. We know he can hit a ball. So he would always get my vote over Paul green. I don't bear any ill-will against Green, I just don't think he's good enough

[Charlie Darwin]

What he does isn't spectacular, he offers an outlet for the short ball for the full back, and an out ball for the wingers, when they're tight, and regularily does that well.

Actually, I'd say that's exactly what he doesn't do.

[Kingdom]

Ah but he does CD, it's not his fault if they choose to lump it up instead of utilising him :-)

[Charlie Darwin]

I'd say it's a team effort to be honest. John O'Shea passes the ball inside all the time in the Premier League, but then again he has Scholes or Fletcher screaming at him every time he gets the ball. Showing yourself isn't really enough at this level.

[Lenny82]

Apparently Keane is to go for a scan for an injury picked up in training at Spurs. Any word on when Folan is expected to be fit? If both were to withdraw, would he call Stokes or Sheridan up? Anyone any idea on how Sheridan has been doing lately?