16 Team Premier Division / Winter Season from 2012/13 TODAY'S DAILY MAIL

**cob655** · 03/10/2011, 9:55 PM

I fully agree with a 16 team premier,hopefully it will help get the media more intrested as there would be more teams and supporters for them to see their papers/tv adds to...
(one problem,would the good players be more split out through the 16 teams resulting in weaker teams on the european stage???Im not sure...)

Also please god this helps get more teams involved in the first div that havent been up to date,like maybe a laois club,a new kildare club and so on.
We need more soccer clubs in the countys that dont have them,as the people in these countys dont have a club of there own so dont care about the LOI and just watch the EPL,I know this to be a fact as i work in dublin with lads from all over the country..

Oh also agree with the 4 team playoff for the final europa cup spot!

**legendz** · 03/10/2011, 10:09 PM

The first division will be more attractive than the A Championship for any potential new clubs. In fairness the U19 league is a good level to join and work on youth structures. I was surprised Castlebar and Tullamore didn't look to be involved in that at least though I guess they'd want a senior team involved as well to reap the rewards from any structures in place.

**Martinho II** · 03/10/2011, 11:15 PM

on brian kennedys piece on facebook about his new book, he mentions the fact that there was a 16 team league here was from 1979 to 1982.. do many posters on here remember that period at all? I would like to see it happen as it least would be a two round series..

**osarusan** · 03/10/2011, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Spudulika

Why so?

Gormacha has given pretty much all the reasons I'd give - defeating the purpose of a league, leaving loads of games where there's nothing to play for (except this time it'd be the top teams with nothing to play for), going too far to attract people who aren't real football supporters.

Like him, I'd rather there were no relegation/promotion playoffs either, but they seem to be here to stay.

**bennocelt** · 04/10/2011, 7:00 AM

Originally Posted by osarusan

Gormacha has given pretty much all the reasons I'd give - defeating the purpose of a league, leaving loads of games where there's nothing to play for (except this time it'd be the top teams with nothing to play for), going too far to attract people who aren't real football supporters.

Like him, I'd rather there were no relegation/promotion playoffs either, but they seem to be here to stay.

Just like now then for the likes of UCD, Bray, Athlone, Waterford, Longford, Drogheda and Finn harps. A 16 team premier would be fantastic, but please dont tell me they are thinking of going back to a winter football

**Macy** · 04/10/2011, 8:07 AM

I would've thought home advantage and a lower opponent would be something to play for? Plus a guaranteed european place for league winners. I'd be delighted with it going to 16 regardless of any other changes, and 16 teams should be the starting point for any further discussions.

**Spudulika** · 04/10/2011, 9:41 AM

Originally Posted by osarusan

Gormacha has given pretty much all the reasons I'd give - defeating the purpose of a league, leaving loads of games where there's nothing to play for (except this time it'd be the top teams with nothing to play for), going too far to attract people who aren't real football supporters.

Like him, I'd rather there were no relegation/promotion playoffs either, but they seem to be here to stay.

Osarusan, I won't try to change your mind, as we're only all discussing it. The purpose of having play-offs - in the format I mentioned, is to keep the season alive until the end. To rule out meaningless games a play-off where (in a 12 team league for example) having a playoff for the title could work to help this. Top 8 play off and the winner takes all. But probably top 8 is too much, top 4. But to rule out "unreal" football supporters is a bit of a disservice, if Limerick push on as you hope they will, there wil be plenty around Markets Field - will you turn them away and only allow those who braved the elements when the club was on its knees? We have to broaden the appeal of the LOI, though there isn't a quick fix anywhere.

**citybone** · 04/10/2011, 10:00 AM

I would be against a 16 team prem and also against winter football (i prob could not go to games in December as i work in retail for a star.
12 Team split like the SPL seems reasonable but we need some sort of Pyramid system like they have in most countries. The Genesis made a number of suggestions and we just ignore most of them.
The fact the Welsh league copied our system and is improving as a result is a hint that we should not go towards a 16 team league again.

**pineapple stu** · 04/10/2011, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by citybone

The Genesis Report made a number of suggestions and we just ignore most of them.

Probably a good idea to ignore that report in fairness.

**eelmonster** · 04/10/2011, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by citybone

i prob could not go to games in December as i work in retail for a star.

Do you work for Santa/Jesus? Are you an elf/wise man (or shepherd)?

**sadloserkid** · 04/10/2011, 10:25 AM

I suspect that the difference between having 12 or 16 teams in our top would be staggeringly minimal once the novelty of being at the top table wore off for the likes of Limerick. That said my only objection to having a 16 thing premier is that unless you had at least 10 teams in the division underneath them the clubs left behind might as well fold now. And we do NOT have enough clubs to facilitate a second tier with 16 in the premier as it stands. It's all well and good planning for clubs in places like Kildare and Kilkenny and Portlaoise from the outside but until those clubs magically appear in Legendz' Christmas stocking they can't be factored into the equation. We have less teams than is ideal but have to be realistic about the chances of new ones arriving too. It is a nice idea in theory if people are happy throwing 5 clubs to the wolves I suppose.

I hate the notion of playoffs deciding the title too. It's right down there with making the goalposts bigger and doing away with draws. The Belgians use a league broken into a number of championships don't they? I'm not much keener on that system but has anybody any idea how that's worked for them (maybe a UCD fan)?

**legendz** · 04/10/2011, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by osarusan

Gormacha has given pretty much all the reasons I'd give - defeating the purpose of a league, leaving loads of games where there's nothing to play for (except this time it'd be the top teams with nothing to play for), going too far to attract people who aren't real football supporters.

Like him, I'd rather there were no relegation/promotion playoffs either, but they seem to be here to stay.

I don't see the harm with them depending on the structure. Last years structure wasn't great. I'd support a play-off where the winner of a division earns automatic promotion and second place has a direct play-off with a team above. If third and fourth are included, the advantage of home advantage should go to the winner of the 2nd vs 3rd team. This year for example if there was no change, Shel going straight up with Monaghan then in a play-off with Drogheda would be fair. If they wanted to expand it, I wouldn't include teams above Drogheda but Cork and Limerick could be brought into it: Drogs v Limerick & Mons v Cork, with home advantage then to either Mons or Cork in the final. I'd see that as a fair play-off system giving fair advantage for doing well in the league while giving others an outside chance.

**pineapple stu** · 04/10/2011, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by sadloserkid

The Belgians use a league broken into a number of championships don't they? I'm not much keener on that system but has anybody any idea how that's worked for them (maybe a UCD fan)?

The Dutch had a ridiculously complicated version for a couple of years anyway and then scaled it way down - there's just four teams now playing off for the last UEFA Cup spot (5th to 8th). They usually have six European spots though.

Dunno how the Belgian league play-off is working out, though it's more of a top-half/bottom-half split than a proper play-off. It does get fairly stupidly convoluted though, and the idea of the bottom two teams playing each other five times to decide who goes down is just bizarre.

**legendz** · 04/10/2011, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

I would've thought home advantage and a lower opponent would be something to play for? Plus a guaranteed european place for league winners. I'd be delighted with it going to 16 regardless of any other changes, and 16 teams should be the starting point for any further discussions.

Play-offs can work depending on their system and if they are giving a fair reward for finishing higher. Based on current standings of Sligo, Shamrock and Derry taking the first 3 places, a play-off for the final european spot would be: Pat's v Dundalk & Bohs v Bray. I'd only support the play-off in a 16 team premier. It would be a fair enough system. Everyone would know the rules before the beginning of the season. Pat's and Bohs would get the home tie and the highest league placed finalist would have home advantage.

**pineapple stu** · 04/10/2011, 10:55 AM

Again, define "work"? And with reference to how the current system doesn't "work".

**Mr Maroon** · 04/10/2011, 11:04 AM

Dates confirmed by the FAI this morning :

Away leg vs third placed First Division team : Tuesday 1st November

Home leg vs third placed First Division team : Friday 4th November

In the event of the third placed team qualifying for the FAI Cup Final, the second leg will be held on Wednesday 9th November.

**adamd164** · 04/10/2011, 11:28 AM

So that puts the 16-team league talk to bed you would assume. 3 up, 1 down.

**El-Pietro** · 04/10/2011, 11:37 AM

assume nothing with the FAI and the LOI Adam

**jinxy lilywhite** · 04/10/2011, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by El-Pietro

assume nothing with the FAI and the LOI Adam

because to assume makes an ASS of U & Me

**John83** · 04/10/2011, 12:52 PM

Hurray! With this rumoured structural change (the second in less than a season), the league will be saved. Next year will see average attendances of 6000 in the top flight, with year on year gains of 12% thereafter. TV money, European success and global admiration will follow. All of our problems are solved.