16 Team Premier Division / Winter Season from 2012/13 TODAY'S DAILY MAIL

**El-Pietro** · 09/11/2011, 4:50 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Which was my point in the first place...

a
so we're agreed! I was replying to LTID though

I'd say the likes of ourselves will be safe for a considerable amount of time, we've been through too much to throw it away now.

Future generations may gamble I would guess

**Macy** · 09/11/2011, 6:06 PM

Originally Posted by lawman

Every season we complain about the league and the viability of same but in reality in order for us to have a national team we have to have a national league, (EUFA rule I believe), so the prospect of the national league collapsing is never going to materialise. However, if YOU were a business person who was the owner of one of these clubs you would possibly close the doors seeing it as unsustainable. Very few if any make a profit at the end of each year.Football to us is a sport, a great sport, but in reality at national league level it is a business, bills to be paid etc.. So why are clubs not run as businesses by proper business people? Is it possible that football people do not have business brains or that business people do not see football as a business? Premiership clubs market their brand in a business manner so always have bums on seats. How come we have games with less than 50 people at them? Who didn't do their job of getting people through the turnstiles? Or is there someboby employed to do that job? I could do that if somebody wants to employ me... for payment of course....

If I was a business owner of one of the clubs, I'd simply not spend more than was coming in, and then I'd have a sustainable club. If all clubs did this, we'd have a sustainable League. If we had an interested organisation, they'd be ensuring clubs were ran in a sustainable manner.

On ownership structure - I'd maintain that a membership structure is still the best long term. Members clubs have, and will continue to get into trouble. However, that structure at least has the potential for checks and balances within the club, whereas an owner can rack up the debts and then just pull the plug. Under the current licencing farce, member owned is about as good as we can get.

**legendz** · 09/11/2011, 9:14 PM

It not only football clubs, some GAA clubs have let themselves into a financial mess with land deals that haven't worked out as planned.

Surely the golden rule of any gambles is not to bet any more than they can afford to lose. It's a ridiculous situation anyways. Any club should only spend no more than what they can bring in. It's surely better to have a part-time set-up than put the club in trouble.

**derm** · 10/11/2011, 1:26 PM

Originally Posted by sadloserkid

Not wholly related to a lot of the recent debate in this thread but would it be correct to say that Pats and (for now) Bohs are the only clubs in the league without a recent enough relegation in their history? Leaving aside those clubs with no recent stint in the top tier like Wexford, the new newer Galway clubs and ourselves, the first division's permanent resident? A strange enough stat I would say.

No they're not. Technically Cork City FC has never been relegated despite just winning the first division

Come to think of it Shels weren't relegated either, they failed to get a premier licence. Unfortunately there are plenty stranger stats about this league than the one above

**El-Pietro** · 10/11/2011, 2:00 PM

and Bray have been relegated 4 times in the last 3 seasons or something like that

**Dodge** · 10/11/2011, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by derm

No they're not. Technically Cork City FC has never been relegated despite just winning the first division

If you want to get technical, this Cork city has never even played in the Premier....

**derm** · 11/11/2011, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

If you want to get technical, this Cork city has never even played in the Premier....

For shame Dodge. Cork City have a proud tradition of playing in the Premier division since 1984 and the first since 2011. We just took a break for a season ...

**Dodge** · 11/11/2011, 1:13 PM

It wasn't me who start bringing technicalities into it

**John83** · 11/11/2011, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by derm

For shame Dodge. Cork City have a proud tradition of playing in the Premier division since 1984 and the first since 2011. We just took a break for a season ...

Indeed, the city of Cork has a long and glorious footballing history, with almost as many trophies as bankruptcies.

**sadloserkid** · 17/11/2011, 9:44 AM

So presuming Bohs slip away from the top flight then Pats will be the only team with any kind of lengthy unbroken tenure in our top tier? There's something disheartening about that surely (unless you're a Pats fan I suppose)?

**Macy** · 17/11/2011, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by sadloserkid

There's something disheartening about that surely (unless you're a Pats fan I suppose)?

I really don't think it matters. On the contrary, the fact that teams come up and go down, can compete for trophies in any given season should be a selling point for the League. If it wasn't that so many relegations (and promotions) were for off the field matters rather than on it.

**Dodge** · 17/11/2011, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by sadloserkid

So presuming Bohs slip away from the top flight then Pats will be the only team with any kind of lengthy unbroken tenure in our top tier? There's something disheartening about that surely (unless you're a Pats fan I suppose)?

Well its comforting for us certainly, but I don't think Bohs will go down this year

**passerrby** · 17/11/2011, 5:39 PM

I dont think there should be any promotion or relegation for at least three seasons.

**oriel** · 21/11/2011, 10:13 PM

Possible glimmer of hope for 4 extra FD teams, Dundalk Fc meeting tonight with fans, it was suggested a 16 team PD could be on the cards............then again who knows, clubs not officially informed what the make up of the 2012 division yet.

Is there is any other country in world football that this could happen in? pre season and we 'think' the Premier div will be 12 teams, but no one really knows.

**BonnieShels** · 21/11/2011, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by oriel

Possible glimmer of hope for 4 extra FD teams, Dundalk Fc meeting tonight with fans, it was suggested a 16 team PD could be on the cards............then again who knows, clubs not officially informed what the make up of the 2012 division yet.

Is there is any other country in world football that this could happen in? pre season and we 'think' the Premier div will be 12 teams, but no one really knows.

I wouldn't be surprised though.

I mean we FINALLY get promoted out of the FD and sure it could matter not a jot.

In what way was 16PD suggested to ye?

**nigel-harps1954** · 22/11/2011, 10:06 AM

Mad story in the mirror today, Stephen McGuinness giving out to the FAI about clubs not knowing whether there will be a 16 team premier or not.
On top of this, he gives out absolute stink to clubs for not giving players more than 1 year contracts, and how they have to go on the dole over the Christmas holidays...I read it with a degree of 'what the fjuck'

**Mr A** · 22/11/2011, 10:17 AM

They are a representative body for footballers. It should not surprise anybody that they are as thick as pig poo.

**nigel-harps1954** · 22/11/2011, 10:27 AM

I'm just confused as to who actually put McGuinness in charge of it? Or did he just decide to himself?

The culture of only offering players one-year deals is hurting the game - according to the PFAI.

"How are you supposed to build a club, build a fan base when every year clubs are changing players all the time and there is so much insecurity? It doesn't make sense to me.
Clubs need more foresight. You need a two or three year plan to build a club"

This Mr. McGuinness...is why you don't run a club.

**Dodge** · 22/11/2011, 10:49 AM

The part about quick turnover of oplayers not helping a club is true. But as usual McGuinness doesn't really address the reason why clubs are like this

**JC_GUFC** · 22/11/2011, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by oriel

Is there is any other country in world football that this could happen in? pre season and we 'think' the Premier div will be 12 teams, but no one really knows.

Have a look at this season's Greek League. They started with 14 teams and have just added another 2!

A few of the teams have played 10 games but the other 2 teams only joined last weekend so only have one game under their belts!

I guess like a few other things Greece looked at Ireland and said "Hey we can fu** things up even worse than them!"