16 Team Premier Division / Winter Season from 2012/13 TODAY'S DAILY MAIL

[bluewhitearmy]

Mons got the points they needed on the pitch. They fielded a valid team against Harps and got three points for it.

Harps have to be punished, the result cannot stand as it was not a valid game, Mons have to be awarded the points. Why is this so difficult?

Are Limerick seriously trying to argue the result should stand or the game be replayed or what?

Why are people like you commenting when they clearly havent a clue what happened.

[monsexile]

I'd say this puts the points issue to bed - Limerick end-of-season statement
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...id=93574368885

"We are obviously disappointed that the Senior Team missed out on a deserved promotion play-off spot, not on the number of points won on the field but due to an administrative issue with the eligibility of a Finn Harps player. Monaghan as you know were awarded a 3-0 win over Finn Harps despite the game finishing 0-0 and these extra two points proved crucial in deciding the final league positions. Limerick FC did request Arbitration in relation to this case but our case was not heard by the arbitrator due to objections from the other parties involved. While we feel we had a solid case and are very disappointed and frustrated that our case was not heard, ultimately this is out of our hands and as a result an administrative error has decided the play-off place. I would hope that it will be an area of the rules that the FAI Rules Committee will rectify in the future to ensure no other team suffers in the manner which Limerick FC have in this case."

"Finally, we would like to congratulate Cork City on winning the league, Shelbourne on securing the second promotion place, and would like to wish the Best of Luck to both Monahgan Utd and Galway Utd in the promotion/relegation playoffs.”

[monutdfc]

Very gracious of Pat O'Sullivan. I would be livid if I were a Limerick fan.*

*edit for clarity - I'd be livid missing out on a playoff place like this, not livid with Pat O'Sullivan

[Charlie Darwin]

So does this mean Harps declined to take part in arbitration? That's the only way I can see it not taking place.

[bluewhitearmy]

Very gracious of Pat O'Sullivan. I would be livid if I were a Limerick fan.

Why..?

[dfx-]

From my understanding: They're arguing that the player was not suspended and that therefore the result of the match should stand.

Ah.

Have they totted up the yellow/reds or something?

[Sam_Heggy]

At least people are still talking about us I suppose

[Charlie Darwin]

Ah.

Have they totted up the yellow/reds or something?

According to Mr. A's post earlier in the thread, they're arguing Harps didn't know he was suspended because they hadn't received official confirmation from the FAI. I'd have thought it was still the club's responsibility to know whether a player is suspended or not, but the FAI has form in that area too.

[dfx-]

I'd have thought it was still the club's responsibility to know whether a player is suspended or not, but the FAI has form in that area too.

That's what I'm getting at. They're claiming the result should stand because of an administrative error and yet that it would be unfair that Monaghan are third because of an administrative error. The player was suspended, Harps shouldn't have played him, they did, they were in the wrong, the result cannot stand and Mons have to get the three points. It is that simple.

[nigel-harps1954]

That's what I'm getting at. They're claiming the result should stand because of an administrative error and yet that it would be unfair that Monaghan are third because of an administrative error. The player was suspended, Harps shouldn't have played him, they did, they were in the wrong, the result cannot stand and Mons have to get the three points. It is that simple.

You're clearly missing the point here though. Harps weren't told when he was supposed to miss his game. Harps were completely unaware he was suspended for that game. This is where Limerick would get their argument.
Nevertheless, it's all been put to bed now.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think that has to be Harps' responsibility to know though. Surely there's somebody at the club keeping a notebook with records of red and yellow cards. I mean they'll be written on the referee's match reports so it's not as if it's difficult to check.

[4tothefloor]

That's what I'm getting at. They're claiming the result should stand because of an administrative error and yet that it would be unfair that Monaghan are third because of an administrative error. The player was suspended, Harps shouldn't have played him, they did, they were in the wrong, the result cannot stand and Mons have to get the three points. It is that simple.

It's not that simple. Actually it's very simple, but not the hollywood version that you're spouting as gospel. This is what I was told by Limerick FC club officials: The FAI did send Harps a suspension notification, but it said on the notice, in plain black and white English, that the suspension was an A Championship suspension. Harps subsequently played said player in the First Division game against Mons. This is the administrative error. Now is this Finn Harps fault or is it the FAI's? Do any of you honestly think that Harps, with little to play for and struggling financially, would knowingly play a suspended player ending up in a hefty FAI fine? They played the player because they were officially notified by the FAI that he was only suspended for the A Championship. So it is an issue regarding suspensions between the A Championship and Senior football. It is an FAI fcuk up. To make this farce even worse, apparently the person that made the administrative balls up was the one that heard the appeal, and guess what - rejected the appeal and blamed Harps!!

Now, bare in mind that Limerick are aware of this official document and that Harps have the original document. The case was NOT heard at arbitration. If Pat O'Sullivan wanted, he could easily seek an injunction preventing the play-offs based on this document alone. Why he hasn't done that I do not know, but his statement today was very gracious indeed, which is typical of the man really. Now, who is to say what has or hasn't been going on behind the scenes since Saturday night? Because when you consider that Bohemians are racing certainties to be relegated and made start over, and very unlikely that Galway are going to get a Premier Licence, Limerick could then be in line for automatic promotion. Maybe they know that and that's not why we're pursuing this.....because I have to say I am surprised that we are not pursuing it.

[Mr A]

I think that has to be Harps' responsibility to know though. Surely there's somebody at the club keeping a notebook with records of red and yellow cards. I mean they'll be written on the referee's match reports so it's not as if it's difficult to check.

In this case the cards were a mixture of A League and 1st Team cards so not as simple as usual. It was only a senior suspension because the A League went away and he was over age for the U19s.

And according to the FAI's press releases their press release is not official notification, only an official notification is (The exact wording was quoted on here by someone).

Yeah, Harps should have caught this (it so happened that a few directors were unavailable that week) but that doesn't change the fact that from the FAI side this was very messy.

On a vaguely related note- Didn't Derry get off with playing Sean Hargan while suspended because they said their fax machine was broken a few years ago? In any case, none of this matters now.

And to wander back on to the actual topic- Daniel McDonnell seems to think there is a lot of uncertainty around the shape of the division next year: http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...n-2921848.html

However, with suggestions that the 2012 First Division might be regionalised, and murmurs about the intentions of some existing teams, the cost of missing out could be quite significant.

[SwanVsDalton]

Now, who is to say what has or hasn't been going on behind the scenes since Saturday night? Because when you consider that Bohemians are racing certainties to be relegated and made start over, and very unlikely that Galway are going to get a Premier Licence, Limerick could then be in line for automatic promotion. Maybe they know that and that's not why we're pursuing this.....

[SwanVsDalton]

On a vaguely related note- Didn't Derry get off with playing Sean Hargan while suspended because they said their fax machine was broken a few years ago?

As I recall our rep simply said 'I'm needed in the basement!' and then slowly descended under a table.

[osarusan]

Just to be clear, Limerick are complaining that the FAI is enforcing the rules correctly?

For Limerick to argue that Mons shouldn't get the points from a match in which they were placed at an unfair advantage is just bizarre.

Mons got the points they needed on the pitch. They fielded a valid team against Harps and got three points for it.

Harps have to be punished, the result cannot stand as it was not a valid game, Mons have to be awarded the points. Why is this so difficult?

Are Limerick seriously trying to argue the result should stand or the game be replayed or what?

That's what I'm getting at. They're claiming the result should stand because of an administrative error and yet that it would be unfair that Monaghan are third because of an administrative error. The player was suspended, Harps shouldn't have played him, they did, they were in the wrong, the result cannot stand and Mons have to get the three points. It is that simple.

Fair play lads. You've both been a monument to ignorance about the issue.

[dfx-]

It's not that simple. Actually it's very simple, but not the hollywood version that you're spouting as gospel. This is what I was told by Limerick FC club officials: The FAI did send Harps a suspension notification, but it said on the notice, in plain black and white English, that the suspension was an A Championship suspension. Harps subsequently played said player in the First Division game against Mons. This is the administrative error. Now is this Finn Harps fault or is it the FAI's? Do any of you honestly think that Harps, with little to play for and struggling financially, would knowingly play a suspended player ending up in a hefty FAI fine? They played the player because they were officially notified by the FAI that he was only suspended for the A Championship. So it is an issue regarding suspensions between the A Championship and Senior football. It is an FAI fcuk up. To make this farce even worse, apparently the person that made the administrative balls up was the one that heard the appeal, and guess what - rejected the appeal and blamed Harps!!

Now, bare in mind that Limerick are aware of this official document and that Harps have the original document. The case was NOT heard at arbitration. If Pat O'Sullivan wanted, he could easily seek an injunction preventing the play-offs based on this document alone. Why he hasn't done that I do not know, but his statement today was very gracious indeed, which is typical of the man really. Now, who is to say what has or hasn't been going on behind the scenes since Saturday night? Because when you consider that Bohemians are racing certainties to be relegated and made start over, and very unlikely that Galway are going to get a Premier Licence, Limerick could then be in line for automatic promotion. Maybe they know that and that's not why we're pursuing this.....because I have to say I am surprised that we are not pursuing it.

So all-in-all, to cut a long story short, it was still an administrative error.

Whoever's fault it is, the game the player subsequently played in that he should not have must be invalid. The result should not count. So what do you propose then.

[4tothefloor]

So all-in-all, to cut a long story short, it was still an administrative error.

Whoever's fault it is, the game the player subsequently played in that he should not have must be invalid. The result should not count. So what do you propose then.

Listen if you can't figure it out for yourself I'm not going to hold your hand and spell it out for you. Now if you can't figure it out based on the detailed explanations that have been given here by a few posters, well then the best thing for you to do is to exit the thread Here's a clue though - look at who made the administrative error and then work your way up from there..... it's not rocket science.

[Charlie Darwin]

Fair play lads. You've both been a monument to ignorance about the issue.

I'm not sure how asking a question amounts to ignorance. The situation was subsequently explained in more detail and I said thanks to the people who did so.

I think the basic fact is still true though. Harps played a player who was not eligible for the fixture and Monaghan faced a stronger team than they should have as a result. If it's true that the FAI explicitly told the club the player was eligible for the fixture, then there is a matter for dispute there.

[osarusan]

And according to the FAI's press releases their press release is not official notification, only an official notification is (The exact wording was quoted on here by someone).

I think the basic fact is still true though. Harps played a player who was not eligible for the fixture and Monaghan faced a stronger team than they should have as a result.

If Mr A's post is correct, then a player only becomes ineligible for a fixture when the FAI have officially notified the club, not automatically when a certain number of cards has been received. So if Finn Harps were not notified that the player was suspended for the next LOI Div 1 game, then he was in fact eligible for that fixture.