16 Team Premier Division / Winter Season from 2012/13 TODAY'S DAILY MAIL

[BonnieShels]

I'm not for BonnieShels plan anyway.
6 relegations from the First Division is a bit much. If anything, the bottom two sides in Division One should be feeding to a league with two regional groups below it.
From these two regional leagues then, the bottom 2 or 3 in each group of the leagues, 4 or 6 in total, would be relegated to the provincial league or whatever is below them.

On the subject of the 12 team division.
1. Shamrock Rovers ... Champions League
2. Bohemians ... Europa League
3. Sligo Rovers ... Europa League Play-off
4. St Patricks Athletic ... Europa League Play-off
5. Sporting Fingal FC ... Europa League Play-off
6. Dundalk ... Europa League Play-off
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7. UCD ... Europa League Play-off
8. Galway United ... Europa League Play-off
9. Bray Wanderers
10. Drogheda United
11. Derry City ... Relegation/Promotion Play-off
12. Waterford United ... Relegation

I'm not for this format but if they decide to press on with this format of a split, there'll have to be some carrot for finishing high up in the second section. This can be provided by way of a Europa League play-off. It's what they're doing in Wales. The Netherland have Europa League play-offs as well.
Wales have a messy format where 5 are involved. What the LoI could do is, have 5th play 8th and 6th play 7th in a one off game. If the FAI Cup winner is in the top 8, 9th place would qualify for the play-offs.
In the next round then 3rd play lowest ranked side and 4th play second lowest ranked side in a one off game. The play-off final then should be played over two-legs.

I initially made it six last year when I thought of it and that's what I posted. You could make it 4 or 3 or one or 2 or 7. Whatever works. But I was more concerned as to how you would integrate the regionality in a nice orderly fashion with a FD. The problem with Ireland is that we have our set regions ie. the provinces, but trying to get them to be integrated on an equal footing without having a long season of dead rubbers and drudgery. If the regional teams knew that all they had to do to to get league football was a pre-season round robin then I'm sure the ease of this process would be a carrot.
The one thing I have a massive problem with is the calendar and I want more than anything for this to be sorted.

[Sam_Heggy]

I'm not for BonnieShels plan anyway.
6 relegations from the First Division is a bit much. If anything, the bottom two sides in Division One should be feeding to a league with two regional groups below it.
From these two regional leagues then, the bottom 2 or 3 in each group of the leagues, 4 or 6 in total, would be relegated to the provincial league or whatever is below them.

On the subject of the 12 team division.
1. Shamrock Rovers ... Champions League
2. Bohemians ... Europa League
3. Sligo Rovers ... Europa League Play-off
4. St Patricks Athletic ... Europa League Play-off
5. Sporting Fingal FC ... Europa League Play-off
6. Dundalk ... Europa League Play-off
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7. UCD ... Europa League Play-off
8. Galway United ... Europa League Play-off
9. Bray Wanderers
10. Drogheda United
11. Derry City ... Relegation/Promotion Play-off
12. Waterford United ... Relegation

I'm not for this format but if they decide to press on with this format of a split, there'll have to be some carrot for finishing high up in the second section. This can be provided by way of a Europa League play-off. It's what they're doing in Wales. The Netherland have Europa League play-offs as well.
Wales have a messy format where 5 are involved. What the LoI could do is, have 5th play 8th and 6th play 7th in a one off game. If the FAI Cup winner is in the top 8, 9th place would qualify for the play-offs.
In the next round then 3rd play lowest ranked side and 4th play second lowest ranked side in a one off game. The play-off final then should be played over two-legs.

But, how many games would they play?

[culloty82]

The regional leagues are an excellent idea, I'd agree with legendz that 6 relegations seem a bit much for a 14-team league, maybe the winners would replace the worst team in each province, but at least plenty of joined-up thinking, and a link-up with the county leagues would allow for a four-tier pyramid.

[Nesta99]

The split thing was a disaster last time around, we ended up in it the first year and it was a graveward, worse than the first division!

Id sooner a 16 team premier than this split rubbish or the old woefull play eachother 3 times. In my oponion the only to build up interest across the country is having the "big" teams coming to town every so often.

Look at Athlone, struggling in the first division with great facilities but poor crowds. If Rovers or Derry or Pats were in town, they'd have some chance of getting the local day trippers out for the game, combined with a noisy away crowd, the whole experience might get some fans hooked.

Taken from Oriel Web, posted by Jim Murphy the Author of the excellent 'History of Dundalk fc'

1992-93 season was the first time that the teams (12) were split off after two rounds (22 games). There was then two more rounds in each of the two groups (10 more games) to give a 32-game season. In the first phase Dundalk finished in 5th place and made into the top group for the final 10 games. That was the year when the Boh’s bus broke down on the way to Oriel Park for the final game when they needed just a single point to clinch the Championship. To complete the day Tom McNulty hammered in the winner in the second half.
The experiment was repeated the following year (1993-94) and this time Dundalk failed to make the top flight. The attendances at Oriel Park for the last 5 games were as follows:
Cobh 410; Monaghan 293; Drogheda 288; Limerick 170; St Patrick’s Ath. 175….a grand total of 1276, or an average of 255 per game.
This was half the total in the games against the same teams in the first phase.

????????????

[legendz]

But, how many games would they play?

Firstly, just to reiterate once more, I am not for the split. If they do push is through though I'm just looking at how it could work in the best interests of the game.

In the league phase, clubs will play 22 games before the split. After the split they'll play a further 10 resulting in a 32 game season.
The play-offs if introduced would add 3 or 4 games for the sides getting to the final. It's close enough to the number of relegation play-off games at present.

When the split was run before, like mentioned above for Dundalk, there was no carrot for finishing top of the second section. Europa League play-offs would at least give the top sides in the second section something meaningful to play for.

In some leagues with a split, the second section is called the relegation group. It's not really a positive name and marketing is important. As I say, I'm not for the split but if they do go with it, they might want to name the second section the Premier Shield Division or something like that with a shield for the winner and the Europa League play-offs as mentioned.

At the end of the day, I support calls for the 16 team Premier. In the current climate, if the remaining 6 clubs want to stay in a national non-regional league, Division One can only possibly survive as a division of 8 until such a time as more clubs come through. With the mooted regional division one of two groups of 8, they seemed to be planning 8 teams playing over 4 series anyway. If that's in the plan already, they can use it for a singe division of 8 below the Premier of 16.

[legendz]

Europa League Play-offs this year based on rankings, in a split league, would have worked out something like:
Sligo being Cup winners, Bray 9th would be included in the EL play-offs:

Round 1 (one-off game)
Dundalk (6th) - Bray (9th)
UCD (7th) - Galway (8th)
(for arguments sake, Dundalk and UCD get through based on rank)

Play-off Semi-finals (one-off game)
Sp. Fingal (4th) - UCD (7th)
St. Pats (5th) - Dundalk (6th)

Europa League Play-off Final (two-legs)
Sp. Fingal (4th) - St. Pat's (5th)

[Dodge]

The attendances at Oriel Park for the last 5 games were as follows:
... St Patrick’s Ath. 175….

I was at that game. I'd guess 50 at the game were Pats fans. And dundalk were still a big club then

[Nesta99]

I was at that game. I'd guess 50 at the game were Pats fans. And dundalk were still a big club then

Exactly the reason why the split league format has been and will be a disaster! For big clubs and small and those who shrunk in the wash over the years.....

[legendz]

I hope they press on with a 16 Premier and take a leaf out of the Dutch League's book and have a Europa League play-off for the last place.
If they go with the play-off, they might have to play the FAI Cup final before the league ends but I see no harm in that. The final this year was great. If it was in October though, after the high profile of it, it'd have been good if there was about 3 or 4 rounds of the league left. The EL play-offs then would add a bit more spice and excitement at the end of the season.
Another good move would be moving the League Cup final to the Aviva. The Aviva is a stadium which can be used more to promote the domestic game. The League Cup final is the only other game which could be realistically moved there. It nearly promotes the game itself without marketing.
The domestic game would be looking at about 3 months of higher profile games:
Middle of September: League Cup Final in the Aviva.
Middle of October: FAI Cup Final in the Aviva.
November: Final rounds of the league run-in and possible play-offs.

[Verdebianco]

No no,no this 12 team league set up can't happen. I'm livid, I think I should be louther in my protests, I'm gonna go to the FAI and set myself on fire........

[Mario]

Many years of cold winters lie ahead

WE ARE likely to experience several years of colder winters with more frequent cold spells similar to the current conditions, according to a UK climate expert ...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...284431435.html

[Mr A]

If the colder winters are related to the solar activity cycle, then it won't be 'many years of cold winters' since the cycle is 11 years long. (I appreciate that wasn't your headline by the way). Plus this isn't a new thing and winter football managed to survive it many times before.

[Dodge]

If the colder winters are related to the solar activity cycle, then it won't be 'many years of cold winters' since the cycle is 11 years long. (I appreciate that wasn't your headline by the way). Plus this isn't a new thing and winter football managed to survive it many times before.

As it does in other countries still

[marinobohs]

Many years of cold winters lie ahead

WE ARE likely to experience several years of colder winters with more frequent cold spells similar to the current conditions, according to a UK climate expert ...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...284431435.html

Nice idea - basing the LOI structure around long term weather forecasts and probobly makes as much sense as any other proposal to change

[peadar1987]

As it does in other countries still

Other countries who can afford roofs on their stadia and undersoil heating though.

[Charlie Darwin]

It looks like the Blackpool-Manchester United game at the weekend is a doubt due to the former's lack of undersoil heating. I believe Portsmouth had similar problems last winter.

[passerrby]

I would worry that the lose in revenue from ice cream sales would not be better than the increased sales of bovril therefore meaning that players could possibility not be paid ..perish the thought

[crc]

The Aviva is a stadium which can be used more to promote the domestic game.

Totally agree.

The League Cup final is the only other game which could be realistically moved there.

I would suggest having a round of league games at the Aviva Stadium. Most likely a double or tripple header. You could even do what rugby league to with the Magic / Millennium Weekend and play an entire series of games (involving every club) at the stadium over one weekend.

Having been at the FAI Cup Final I can say that I can't wait to see another LoI game there.

[passerrby]

ya Mons V salthill

[legendz]

Nice idea - basing the LOI structure around long term weather forecasts and probobly makes as much sense as any other proposal to change

It is a good idea isn't it!?

All SPL fixtures are cancelled for this weekend though, GAA club games being affected as well. The LoI seems to have finished at a good time!