16 Team Premier Division / Winter Season from 2012/13 TODAY'S DAILY MAIL

**punkrocket** · 29/10/2010, 8:35 AM

Or World Cups

There's usually a break during the big tourneys and only the odd clash with the popular games. Interest levels in all football, including LOI, increase during euros/WCs especially when Ireland qualify.

Now, if only we could qualify for something some time....

**Spudulika** · 29/10/2010, 9:04 AM

Solely on the topic of Europe, and performances not raising the level of attendance or interest in the league, this is largely down to the clubs and FAI. You can grab headlines with a good run in Europe, however people won't bother coming back if what they experience is sub-standard, especially floating fans. There are lots of why's and why nots, though facilities (or lack thereof) take a share of the blame, likewise the too often lack of re-investment in clubs from money gained, plus the limited and parochial nature of the LOI. I cannot 100% remember the rule, but if you get in 10 customers, 2-3 will buy, 1-2 will come back at a later date and 50% will never want a repeat experience. Now if you look at, for example, Shels in 2004, they should, in this way, have been packing Tolka every 2nd week, so why weren't they? Was it all the barstoolers fault? Was it the meeja? I think it's a little simpler - lack or management and foresight from the club coupled with mismanagement from the FAI - again this is just an opinion.

**legendz** · 29/10/2010, 1:46 PM

Originally Posted by osarusan

But it's been pointed out that performing (relatively) well in europe hasn't raised the profile of the league in general, and hasn't even resulted in a significant improvement in the attendances of the teams that perfromed in Europe. As Dodge pointed out earlier, of all the teams that had decent runs in Europe, St. Pats are the only team that aren't suffering for it now. Even overachieving in Europe through unsustainable wages to players hasn't helped the league or the clubs themselves.

You make the point there, relatively well success it what has been achieved. There has been no box-office stuff.
The important thing is being clubs being well run. I'm not looking for clubs to lead themselves to financial ruin on a European gamble. European performances are important though and the coefficient table is a reflection of the leagues standing.

**legendz** · 29/10/2010, 1:56 PM

Originally Posted by Spudulika

Solely on the topic of Europe, and performances not raising the level of attendance or interest in the league, this is largely down to the clubs and FAI. You can grab headlines with a good run in Europe, however people won't bother coming back if what they experience is sub-standard, especially floating fans. There are lots of why's and why nots, though facilities (or lack thereof) take a share of the blame, likewise the too often lack of re-investment in clubs from money gained, plus the limited and parochial nature of the LOI. I cannot 100% remember the rule, but if you get in 10 customers, 2-3 will buy, 1-2 will come back at a later date and 50% will never want a repeat experience. Now if you look at, for example, Shels in 2004, they should, in this way, have been packing Tolka every 2nd week, so why weren't they? Was it all the barstoolers fault? Was it the meeja? I think it's a little simpler - lack or management and foresight from the club coupled with mismanagement from the FAI - again this is just an opinion.

It's down to the club's really at the end of the day. Shel's missed an opportunity to work on the support from those games in '04.
They didn't back it up which much success either which confined it to a one hit wonder.

**osarusan** · 29/10/2010, 2:36 PM

Originally Posted by legendz

The important thing is being clubs being well run. I'm not looking for clubs to lead themselves to financial ruin on a European gamble.

Seeing as how the less than box-office stuff was mainly achieved by clubs who were spending what they didn't have, all LOI clubs being well run would probably result in even less successful European campaigns than now, at least in the short term.

And even the overspenders are/were miles away from box-office stuff. The only real hope of box-office stuff is what happens with Rovers this year - that a club gets lucky in the draw against probably the most famous team in the competition.

**Spudulika** · 29/10/2010, 4:46 PM

Osarusan, I agree with you in that the bigspenders were miles away from the big time, even Shels, though better run clubs stand a far better chance of making progress than ramshackle rovers (this is not a snipe at either of the Premier bearers of this name). If clubs were run better, with a properly set up youth system, proper promotions and game day experience, earning what they spend and playing in a well run league, then in 4-5 years you'd have an Irish club making a breakthrough, initially to the Europa League groups. I've seen how other countries have done it, some with far poorer average crowds than ours, and in countries where football stands at the same level as it does here. It's about proper management and organisation. Not hand to mouth as we do right now (again not a snipe at any clubs or organisation).

**legendz** · 30/10/2010, 12:33 AM

There isn't a whole lot wrong with a league that has only 5 points separating the top 4. Hopefully now they can all at least maintain their current level and do well in Europe next season.

**Réiteoir** · 31/10/2010, 7:42 PM

Originally Posted by KianD

I have a mate from England who went to the Elfsborgs game, has now been back twice since, bought a replica shirt, drunk in McDowells and considers himself a Pats fan.

I worry he is the sole exception to prove the rule, though.

Not at all - I've managed to get half a dozen or so English mates to come across to games, most are now followers of the League on a casual basis.

When I ask them in June or July if they fancy a trip over to Dublin for the weekend to see the football - the answer's always been "Yeah, quite fancy that"

When I ask them in March-May or September-November if they fancy heading to see a game and a weekend over - it's always "Oh, it clashes with a Spurs/Liverpool/Man Utd/England (delete as appropriate) game I'm off to see" or "Don't fancy that - it'll be far too cold to stand around watching the game".

It always finishes with the statement "Let me know if you're going over in the summer when it's close season here - I'd be interested then!"

**born2bwild** · 31/10/2010, 9:04 PM

There are problems with switching to winter football and a 16 team league.
The weather will keep people away: say what you want about the 'special' experience of being under floodlights on a rainy night, rain keeps people inside.
We'll be competing with Premier league fixtures.
There will be fewer matches (BIG problem)
The lower end of DIV 1 might as well just give up and the GAA will feed off the leftovers.
None of the arguments for winter football make any sense to me.

**Macy** · 01/11/2010, 8:22 AM

Originally Posted by Réiteoir

Not at all - I've managed to get half a dozen or so English mates to come across to games, most are now followers of the League on a casual basis.

When I ask them in June or July if they fancy a trip over to Dublin for the weekend to see the football - the answer's always been "Yeah, quite fancy that"

When I ask them in March-May or September-November if they fancy heading to see a game and a weekend over - it's always "Oh, it clashes with a Spurs/Liverpool/Man Utd/England (delete as appropriate) game I'm off to see" or "Don't fancy that - it'll be far too cold to stand around watching the game".

It always finishes with the statement "Let me know if you're going over in the summer when it's close season here - I'd be interested then!"

So you're proposing basing the league season on reverse barstoolers travelling once or twice a season?

**Steve Bruce** · 05/11/2010, 11:18 AM

Is the move to Winter Football definately happening? And if so when will the first season be affected (not the first winter season, the first transitional season on the way to winter)

**Mr A** · 05/11/2010, 11:21 AM

Neither of the moves discussed here have been confirmed yet. I'd say the 16 team league is more likely than the move back to winter. The first season to be affected would be the one after next which would be the transitional one.

**Hibs4Ever** · 05/11/2010, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by born2bwild

We'll be competing with Premier league fixtures.

Can't ever remember Premier League games on a Friday night

**peadar1987** · 05/11/2010, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Hibs4Ever

Can't ever remember Premier League games on a Friday night

Unfortunately, most of the Irish public would chose a Friday night English Premier League build-up show over League of Ireland.

**marinobohs** · 05/11/2010, 1:24 PM

Originally Posted by born2bwild

There are problems with switching to winter football and a 16 team league.
The weather will keep people away: say what you want about the 'special' experience of being under floodlights on a rainy night, rain keeps people inside.
We'll be competing with Premier league fixtures.
There will be fewer matches (BIG problem)
The lower end of DIV 1 might as well just give up and the GAA will feed off the leftovers.
None of the arguments for winter football make any sense to me.

On a slight aside has summer football attracted many northern fans to LOI games ? I recall meeting some lads from Portadown at Hunky Dory park that regularly came down for Drogs matches. Suppose this would apply to most teams around the border ?

Do many on here ever venture north in our "off season" ?

**BonnieShels** · 05/11/2010, 2:53 PM

Have been trying to go to to Newry City for years. Maybe this season.

**holidaysong** · 06/11/2010, 3:13 PM

Newry now play their games on Friday nights. Makes it a bit harder to get to rather than a 3pm Saturday game. I'm planning to go to the Newry vs. Coleraine match on December 10th all going well.

**BonnieShels** · 07/11/2010, 2:15 AM

I may see you there. this weekend has been Rather empty. I hate the off-season.

**Duffman** · 07/11/2010, 3:03 PM

Originally Posted by marinobohs

On a slight aside has summer football attracted many northern fans to LOI games ? I recall meeting some lads from Portadown at Hunky Dory park that regularly came down for Drogs matches. Suppose this would apply to most teams around the border ?

Do many on here ever venture north in our "off season" ?

Seems to be a bit of a connection there, I was at Portadown/Glentoran last year and there was the dulcet tones of the SouthLouther in the bar, about 4 or 5 of them in Drogs jerseys. This time of the year I get to about 1 a fortnight up north and occasionally there are a few LOI fans knocking about. I know that in the past Dundalk have had lads from Newry and ARmagh in for the games, that goes back to a Thursday night though.